Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Citong Shifu]

Who is their instructor after they learn the shoalin and tong-bei? After they decide what other styles they wish to learn?

I am! All I was Saying is, our martial art system is not based on an overwhelming amount of forms. My friends art has been reduced to his primary structure as well. There just seems to be more of a benefit with this type of stucture, unless one wishes to practice forms for the collective purpose which has a great cardio benefit.

[shen ku]

anyone have any kinds of problems training in this cold weather coming?

[Baqualin]

anyone have any kinds of problems training in this cold weather coming?

Only if I try to train outside Actually, It takes me a little longer to warm up....I also seem more sluggish......I don't know if it's from the cold weather or just getting old
BQ

I do practice meditation outside (not often) in the snow just to see if I can generate enough energy to stay comfortable.....sometimes I can, sometimes not.
BQ

[Judge Pen]

Hey JP hows the football team doing KC

Which one? Redskins (ok, but could be better), Volunteers (horrible, probably lose to Kentucky this year, so you know its bad) Fantasy, 2nd overall, but it's still a tight race to the playoffs.

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=Judge Pen;896523]Which one? Volunteers (horrible, probably lose to Kentucky this year, so you know its bad)

The Cats are getting better you know
BQ

[Judge Pen]

[QUOTE=Baqualin;896531]

Which one? Volunteers (horrible, probably lose to Kentucky this year, so you know its bad)

The Cats are getting better you know
BQ

That's not hard to get, when you've been that bad for that long.

[peace&love]

I have been training in little over a year in SD. I researched a number of other systems and schools, and the local SD school best fit my schedule. I also liked the fact that the internal arts were taught and practiced there as well. Unfortunately, I have had a recent incident that has left me puzzled and disappointed. Feedback in regards to this would be helpful.

Previous to SD, I trained in Hung Gar and Choy Lee Fut. We played "sticky" hands and feet regularly and did controlled sparring without gear that was very intense at times. Last night, I played hands with someone who is getting ready to test for a black belt. They did not do well against me and proceeded to strike me in the chin with a fist, which I let go as a mistake. Looking back. it was on purpose I think out of frustration. As the process continued, the person gave me three cheap shot to the neck before reconnecting hands. Since this person is much younger than me, I informed them that they should never do that again. It is against the rules and etiquette of this training technique. They were basically cheap shots. Once I informed the person of this, he stormed out of class threatening to beat me up etc. Please keep this in mind; he's doing this outside the classroom leaving the building without approaching me. I feel like something should be done in regards to this matter. At my old kwoon, this could be call for expulsion due to the disrespect factor. If this person is allowed to continue and tests for black at this point, I would be highly disappointed due to his current emotional state of mind and maturity level. Anyway, any thoughts or views would be greatly appreciated. Peace.

[naja]

Since this person is much younger than me, I informed them that they should never do that again. It is against the rules and etiquette of this training technique. They were basically cheap shots. Once I informed the person of this, he stormed out of class threatening to beat me up etc. Please keep this in mind; he's doing this outside the classroom leaving the building without approaching me. I feel like something should be done in regards to this matter. At my old kwoon, this could be call for expulsion due to the disrespect factor. If this person is allowed to continue and tests for black at this point, I would be highly disappointed due to his current emotional state of mind and maturity level. Anyway, any thoughts or views would be greatly appreciated. Peace.

From the way it sounds, I think you handled it in the correct manner. Problem here is when someone is acting like an @ss, they are unpredictable in how they would take someone who is a lower rank than them voicing what you did.

If you like SD, and enjoy going to this kwoon then I say give it a little time. This person may not stay very long if they do pass their black sash test, and they may not pass. I understand how it would be disappointing, you'll just have to weigh that against how much you enjoy the kwoon and the training there.

[BentMonk]

I have been training in little over a year in SD. I researched a number of other systems and schools, and the local SD school best fit my schedule. I also liked the fact that the internal arts were taught and practiced there as well. Unfortunately, I have had a recent incident that has left me puzzled and disappointed. Feedback in regards to this would be helpful.

Previous to SD, I trained in Hung Gar and Choy Lee Fut. We played "sticky" hands and feet regularly and did controlled sparring without gear that was very intense at times. Last night, I played hands with someone who is getting ready to test for a black belt. They did not do well against me and proceeded to strike me in the chin with a fist, which I let go as a mistake. Looking back. it was on purpose I think out of frustration. As the process continued, the person gave me three cheap shot to the neck before reconnecting hands. Since this person is much younger than me, I informed them that they should never do that again. It is against the rules and etiquette of this training technique. They were basically cheap shots. Once I informed the person of this, he stormed out of class threatening to beat me up etc. Please keep this in mind; he's doing this outside the classroom leaving the building without approaching me. I feel like something should be done in regards to this matter. At my old kwoon, this could be call for expulsion due to the disrespect factor. If this person is allowed to continue and tests for black at this point, I would be highly disappointed due to his current emotional state of mind and maturity level. Anyway, any thoughts or views would be greatly appreciated. Peace.

This is more a person specific issue than a SD issue IMO. It would be nice if every person who practiced MA was as concerned with developing their character as they are about developing their fists. Some aren't truly concerned with really developing either. They're ego driven hobbyists who view rank as a status symbol. People like this are annoying to be sure. I feel that they exist to help pay the rent on the kwoon, and serve as an example of what a MA isn't. Unless things continue to happen between you and this guy, I wouldn't give it another thought. Be content in the knowledge that you took the moral high road. I'm sorry if this sounds like a bad fortune cookie, but people like that really aren't worth your time and energy. Be well.

[tattooedmonk]

...... notes , the ones that are handed out at the seminar, are only one sided. I did my best to reconstruct them. Please correct them or if I have missed or need to change. I am going to do the Chinese translation for them as well.

1. Getting Ready Position
2. White Crane Flies to the Edge of the Sky
3. White Crane Spreads It’s Wings
4. White Crane Raises the Knee and Kicks
5. White Crane Salutes the Buddha
6. White Crane Turns, Knees and Kicks
7. White Crane Kicks Back
8. White Crane Knees, Leans Back and Front Kicks
9. Vicious Tiger Back Kicks the Enemy
10. Three Kicks of the White Crane
11. White Crane Guards the Cave
12. White Crane Guards the Nest
13. Vicious Tiger Looks Back
14. White Crane Spreads It’s Wings
15. White Crane Knees , Kicks
16. Green Dragon Grabs the Rainbow
17. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
18. Wild Tiger Raises It’s Head
19. Golden Dragon Stretches It’s Claw (R)
20. Golden Dragon Stretches It’s Claw (L)
21. Golden Snake Whips It’s Tail
22. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
23. Vicious Tiger Closes the Door
24. White Snake Comes Up to the Water Surface
25. Golden Snake Whips It’s Tail
26. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
27. Green Dragon Catches the Rainbow
28. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
29. Golden Dragon Opens It’s Claw
30. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
31. Green Dragon Tests It’s Claw
32. Black Leopard Climbs the Tree
33. Green Dragon Stretches It’s Claw
34. Green Dragon Swings It’s Claw
35. White Snake Climbs Over the Twig
36. Golden Leopard Bounces the Ball
37. Golden Leopard Rolls the Ball
38. Golden Leopard Strikes the Ball
39. Green Dragon Stretches It’s Claw
40. Wild Tiger Raises It’s Head
41. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
42. Golden Dragon Opens It’s Claw
43. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
44. Green Dragon Snatches the Pearl
45. Black Dragon Stretches It’s Leg ( L)
46. Black Dragon Stretches It’s Leg (R)
47. Black Leopard Twist It’s Neck
48. White Crane Spreads It’ s Wings
49. White Crane Strikes It’s Wings
50. Golden Dragon Opens It’s Claw
51. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
52. Green Dragon Sinks to the Bottom of the Ocean
53. Green Dragon Looks at the Sun
54. White Crane Strikes Out with Both Wings
55. White Strikes Out With It’s (L) Wing
56. Green Dragon Sinks to the Bottom of the Ocean
57. Green Dragon Looks at the Sun
58. White Strikes Out With Both Wings
59. White Crane Strikes Out with It’s (R) Wing
60. Wild Tiger Pushes the ( Hua ) Mountain
61. Vicious Tiger Nods It’s Head
62. White Crane Jumps Over the Twig
63. White Crane Smashes It’s (L ) Foot
64. White Crane Stands on One Leg
65. White Crane Defends the Cave
66. White Crane Defends the Nest
67. White Crane Smashes It’s (R) Foot
68. Green Dragon Catches the Rainbow
69. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
70. Green Dragon Catches the Rainbow
71. Green Dragon Stretches It’s (R) Leg
72. Wild Tiger Looks Back
73. White Crane Spreads It’s Wings
74. Golden Dragon Grabs the Rainbow
75. Golden Leopard Twists It’s Body
76. White Crane Opens It’s (R) Wing
77. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
78. Black Dragon Turns the Body
79. Golden Dragon Reveals It’s Claw
80. Black Dragon Whips It’s Claw
81. Black Dragon Turns the Body
82. Golden Dragon Reveals It’s Claw
83. Black Dragon Whips It’s Claw
84. Black Dragon Turn the Body
85. Golden Dragon Reveals It’s Claws
86. Black Dragons It’s Claw
87. Green Dragon Comes Out of the Ocean
88. Green Dragon Come Out of the Ocean
89. Black Leopard Play with the Ball
90. Black Leopard Play with the Ball
91. Golden Leopard Looks at the Moon
92. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
93. Golden Leopard Scratches It’s Back (Three Elbows)
94. White Snake Looks at the Road
95. Green Dragon Comes Up from the Sea
96. Twin White Cranes Raise their Heads
97. White Snake Throws It’s Tongue Out (Spits Venom?)
98. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
99. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
100. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
101. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
102. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
103. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
104. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
105. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
106. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
107. Vicious Tiger Closes the Door
108. Vicious Tiger Turns It’s Head
109. Black Leopard Strikes (Stomps) the Ground
110. Golden Snake Strikes Out of the Willow Tree
111. Green Dragon Comes up From the Ocean
112. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
113. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
114. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
115. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
116. Vicious Tiger Closes the Door
117. Wild Tiger Looks Back
118. Golden Leopard Hangs from the Tree Branch
119. Golden Leopard Salutes the Buddha
120. White Crane Leaps, Kicks Behind
121. Green Dragon Comes Out of the Lake
122. Move Back and Ride the Tiger
123. White Crane Knee And Spread the Wings
124. Double Snakes Jump Over the Twig
125. White Snake Salutes the Buddha
126. Vicious Tiger Salutes the Buddha
127. Green Dragon Salutes The Buddha
128. Conclusion of the Form

Curious as to why most people throw these away. I find them to be very helpful and valuable. I am missing a few from various forms but have most of the ones that were released or I have made reconstructed copies

[bodhi warrior]

[QUOTE=tattooedmonk;896578]...... notes , the ones that are handed out at the seminar, are only one sided. I did my best to reconstruct them. Please correct them or if I have missed or need to change. I am going to do the Chinese translation for them as well.

1. Getting Ready Position
2. White Crane Flies to the Edge of the Sky
3. White Crane Spreads It’s Wings
4. White Crane Raises the Knee and Kicks
5. White Crane Salutes the Buddha
6. White Crane Turns, Knees and Kicks
7. White Crane Kicks Back
8. White Crane Knees, Leans Back and Front Kicks
9. Vicious Tiger Back Kicks the Enemy
10. Three Kicks of the White Crane
11. White Crane Guards the Cave
12. White Crane Guards the Nest
13. Vicious Tiger Looks Back
14. White Crane Spreads It’s Wings
15. White Crane Knees , Kicks
16. Green Dragon Grabs the Rainbow
17. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
18. Wild Tiger Raises It’s Head
19. Golden Dragon Stretches It’s Claw (R)
20. Golden Dragon Stretches It’s Claw (L)
21. Golden Snake Whips It’s Tail
22. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
23. Vicious Tiger Closes the Door
24. White Snake Comes Up to the Water Surface
25. Golden Snake Whips It’s Tail
26. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
27. Green Dragon Catches the Rainbow
28. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
29. Golden Dragon Opens It’s Claw
30. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
31. Green Dragon Tests It’s Claw
32. Black Leopard Climbs the Tree
33. Green Dragon Stretches It’s Claw
34. Green Dragon Swings It’s Claw
35. White Snake Climbs Over the Twig
36. Golden Leopard Bounces the Ball
37. Golden Leopard Rolls the Ball
38. Golden Leopard Strikes the Ball
39. Green Dragon Stretches It’s Claw
40. Wild Tiger Raises It’s Head
41. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
42. Golden Dragon Opens It’s Claw
43. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
44. Green Dragon Snatches the Pearl
45. Black Dragon Stretches It’s Leg ( L)
46. Black Dragon Stretches It’s Leg (R)
47. Black Leopard Twist It’s Neck
48. White Crane Spreads It’ s Wings
49. White Crane Strikes It’s Wings
50. Golden Dragon Opens It’s Claw
51. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
52. Green Dragon Sinks to the Bottom of the Ocean
53. Green Dragon Looks at the Sun
54. White Crane Strikes Out with Both Wings
55. White Strikes Out With It’s (L) Wing
56. Green Dragon Sinks to the Bottom of the Ocean
57. Green Dragon Looks at the Sun
58. White Strikes Out With Both Wings
59. White Crane Strikes Out with It’s (R) Wing
60. Wild Tiger Pushes the ( Hua ) Mountain
61. Vicious Tiger Nods It’s Head
62. White Crane Jumps Over the Twig
63. White Crane Smashes It’s (L ) Foot
64. White Crane Stands on One Leg
65. White Crane Defends the Cave
66. White Crane Defends the Nest
67. White Crane Smashes It’s (R) Foot
68. Green Dragon Catches the Rainbow
69. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
70. Green Dragon Catches the Rainbow
71. Green Dragon Stretches It’s (R) Leg
72. Wild Tiger Looks Back
73. White Crane Spreads It’s Wings
74. Golden Dragon Grabs the Rainbow
75. Golden Leopard Twists It’s Body
76. White Crane Opens It’s (R) Wing
77. White Snake Comes Out of the Hole
78. Black Dragon Turns the Body
79. Golden Dragon Reveals It’s Claw
80. Black Dragon Whips It’s Claw
81. Black Dragon Turns the Body
82. Golden Dragon Reveals It’s Claw
83. Black Dragon Whips It’s Claw
84. Black Dragon Turn the Body
85. Golden Dragon Reveals It’s Claws
86. Black Dragons It’s Claw
87. Green Dragon Comes Out of the Ocean
88. Green Dragon Come Out of the Ocean
89. Black Leopard Play with the Ball
90. Black Leopard Play with the Ball
91. Golden Leopard Looks at the Moon
92. White Snake Jumps Over the Twig
93. Golden Leopard Scratches It’s Back (Three Elbows)
94. White Snake Looks at the Road
95. Green Dragon Comes Up from the Sea
96. Twin White Cranes Raise their Heads
97. White Snake Throws It’s Tongue Out (Spits Venom?)
98. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
99. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
100. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
101. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
102. Hungry Tiger Strikes the Lamb
103. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
104. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
105. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
106. Green Dragon Comes Up From The Ocean
107. Vicious Tiger Closes the Door
108. Vicious Tiger Turns It’s Head
109. Black Leopard Strikes (Stomps) the Ground
110. Golden Snake Strikes Out of the Willow Tree
111. Green Dragon Comes up From the Ocean
112. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
113. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
114. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
115. Poisonous Snake Blocks the Road
116. Vicious Tiger Closes the Door
117. Wild Tiger Looks Back
118. Golden Leopard Hangs from the Tree Branch
119. Golden Leopard Salutes the Buddha
120. White Crane Leaps, Kicks Behind
121. Green Dragon Comes Out of the Lake
122. Move Back and Ride the Tiger
123. White Crane Knee And Spread the Wings
124. Double Snakes Jump Over the Twig
125. White Snake Salutes the Buddha
126. Vicious Tiger Salutes the Buddha
127. Green Dragon Salutes The Buddha
128. Conclusion of the Form

To start with :
13. white crane smashes his right foot
14. vicious tiger turns his head
15. white crane knees, kicks and spreads the wings.

I started to go through the whole thing but it's just too long. Anyway, if you want pictures of the form buy Doc-fai wong's book or video. It's almost the exact same with only minor differences.
I had bought the book years ago when it was first published in 1990. Later, Master Bill was offering a class and I was curious if it would be the same. And what do you know, almost exact. I ask Doc fai wong about it and he says Sin The' stole the form from him, of course Sin The denied it.
This is why I draw my own conclusion that the core material taught by Hiang and Sin was legitimately taught to them. Anything after 1990 I just have a hard time buying.

[shen ku]

PEACE@LOVE,,,,,, just keep in mind that it is your path you are walking, and if he really wants to fallow up with you outside of class he will bring it to you ,,,,and then show him what its all about,,, but just keep walking your path,,,there are more of us like you in this world and in the arts , so don't feel alone

[shen ku]

9807!!!!!!!!!

[tattooedmonk]

I started to go through the whole thing but it's just too long. Anyway, if you want pictures of the form buy Doc-fai wong's book or video. It's almost the exact same with only minor differences.
I had bought the book years ago when it was first published in 1990. Later, Master Bill was offering a class and I was curious if it would be the same. And what do you know, almost exact. I ask Doc fai wong about it and he says Sin The' stole the form from him, of course Sin The denied it.
This is why I draw my own conclusion that the core material taught by Hiang and Sin was legitimately taught to them. Anything after 1990 I just have a hard time buying.

Whatever the case maybe, these are GMS's translations and not DFW's.

I have the book.

Funny that GMS's translations coincides with the 128 postures( there are more moves indicated in DFW's translation) and yet DFW's does not .

GMS's is more detailed than DFW'S .

The only way GMS could have stolen it, is if DFW created it himself, which he did not.

I think it help substatiate GMS's claim about the system.

Why would GMS and DFW be the only ones who teach this form, yet both of them talk about how famous and well known a Shaolin form it is?

[sean_stonehart]

Whatever the case maybe, these are GMS's translations and not DFW's.

I have the book.

Cool...

Funny that GMS's translations coincides with the 128 postures( there are more moves indicated in DFW's translation) and yet DFW's does not .

There's a reason for that.

GMS's is more detailed than DFW'S .

You think?

The only way GMS could have stolen it, is if DFW created it himself, which he did not.

Lau Bun brought the set with him to North America in 1922. He taught it until he died in 1967. DFW learned in the mid to late 60's from Lau Bun & his senior classmates. It's been performed in SF's Chinatown, Los Angeles, Maryville since Lau Bun arrived in pieces & completely. I've seen video of a teenaged DFW performing in 1967.

I think it help substatiate GMS's claim about the system.

How?

Why would GMS and DFW be the only ones who teach this form, yet both of them talk about how famous and well known a Shaolin form it is?

Marketing... I can name a handful of other CMA's off the top of my head that have their own version of Ng Ying. CLF has at least 3. Siu Lum Ng Ying Kuen (Shaolin Wu Xing Quan) is a generic name, but DFW put his book out first. First come, first serve.

Here's a better question... why does the SD version kinda look like DFW's?