Wing Chun defense against powerful hooks.

[m1k3]

Then what would be your other ways? I believe HW was asking something along those lines.



I don't agree on that one. It's not a realistic goal.

I don't think he asked for every defense for every type of hook. There is more than one type of hook you know.

As for you don't agree and it's not realistic are you talking about using a punch in

a defensive manner, to intercept (jeet?), disrupt his structure and range and take away his timing.

or for

For your final question: "Who spars attacking all of the time and preempting everything the opponent's got, never worrying about defending?"

The answer is a good boxer and this includes Chinese Boxing also.

My answer to both of these is watch a boxing match either with a good boxer who has a good jab. Ali, Sugar Ray (either of them), Sonny Liston or Larry Holmes. The jab is always there. Or a good infighter: Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano or a young Mike Tyson. Fighters who control their opponent by swarming aggression, close distance and vicious body punches. Two totally different ways of using the attack to provide defense.

[Mr Punch]

Before this thread gets any more irrelevant:

look here!

[Wayfaring]

Let’s stop it right now!
Ali Rahim.

Hey Ali,

I've seen clips you have up where you're training young boxers, doing a lot of focus pad work with movement.

What's your opinion on dealing with a boxer's hook with wing chun structures?

[Wayfaring]

Here is a clip I threw together regarding a round punch. I left some things out that I can explain later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBxo-mUz3EA

Phil,

That link says "video unavailable". Do you have it marked private or something?

[mjw]

Against a hook I would use a dip/bill sau (spelling may be off) and if the hook is that powerful that it starts to break through I would simply follow wing chun princilples from chi sau training and just do a second dip/bill sau under or to the otherside of the hook and shift to the outside of the hook thus letting that hook continue on it's path and then sieze the elbow and break the structure of my opponent or take what is open.

[Edmund]

As for you don't agree and it's not realistic are you talking about using a punch in
a defensive manner

I'm in agreement you can use a punch in a defensive manner to disrupt the opponent's offence.

My answer to both of these is watch a boxing match either with a good boxer who has a good jab. Ali, Sugar Ray (either of them), Sonny Liston or Larry Holmes. The jab is always there. Or a good infighter: Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano or a young Mike Tyson. Fighters who control their opponent by swarming aggression, close distance and vicious body punches. Two totally different ways of using the attack to provide defense.

They defend by blocking and moving off as well! They don't attack all the time AND no one can preempt everything the opponent is about to do.

That's the whole point. You can't be completely attack.
A good fighter can attack AND defend.

[Phil Redmond]

Sorry about that. Here's the correct link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4LMm3hYad0
This clip was done after coming from Warrington Hudlin's Inauguration party in Tribeca so I left some things out. . I will make a more detailed clip this weekend. Though there might be people who disagree I must say that I do what has saved my a** in real fights and in the ring. Of course I'll change my methods when I find something that works better for me and my students.

[TenTigers]

I like that, it looks like it's operating almost like a shoulder stop, breaking his structure.

[Violent Designs]

Sorry about that. Here's the correct link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4LMm3hYad0
This clip was done after coming from Warrington Hudlin's Inauguration party in Tribeca so I left some things out. . I will make a more detailed clip this weekend. Though there might be people who disagree I must say that I do what has saved my a** in real fights and in the ring. Of course I'll change my methods when I find something that works better for me and my students.

Good post Sifu Redmond shows what you NEED to do not just theory. A lot of WC players think using that technique after a sau/kup/deng choy or a powerful hook has already started traveling in the arc at full speed will still stop it which is stupid and silly.

You gotta stop it at conception.

[Hardwork108]

You gotta stop it at conception.

At conception or at least early on in its trajectory. What to do when a powerful hook is at full swing would also make a good discussion.

Regarding sifu Redmonds video clip. The way I was taught to handle the exact situation was to block bill sao to elbow joint but instead of moving to the opponent`s right, I would step with my right foot to his left at a 45 degree angle delivering an instant right hand strike to the neck/face area while "borrowing" the force from his hook, followed by multiple strikes until the threat was diminished.

I suppose that it is a case of different strokes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sorry about that. Here's the correct link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4LMm3hYad0
This clip was done after coming from Warrington Hudlin's Inauguration party in Tribeca so I left some things out. . I will make a more detailed clip this weekend. Though there might be people who disagree I must say that I do what has saved my a** in real fights and in the ring. Of course I'll change my methods when I find something that works better for me and my students.

The only critique I have is that a good boxer ( average) would not attack with a hook like that.

[m1k3]

I'm in agreement you can use a punch in a defensive manner to disrupt the opponent's offence.

Ok, this is a good start to the day.

They defend by blocking and moving off as well! They don't attack all the time AND no one can preempt everything the opponent is about to do.

That's the whole point. You can't be completely attack.
A good fighter can attack AND defend.

And to reciprocate, I agree with this.

I was just trying to make the point that a punch can be defensive as well as offensive.

[Wayfaring]

Sorry about that. Here's the correct link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4LMm3hYad0
This clip was done after coming from Warrington Hudlin's Inauguration party in Tribeca so I left some things out. . I will make a more detailed clip this weekend. Though there might be people who disagree I must say that I do what has saved my a** in real fights and in the ring. Of course I'll change my methods when I find something that works better for me and my students.

Yes. It is your flanking step and the control of space with structure that is the key here. Not just the hand technique.

Now it is a little more difficult to do that off of a standard combination, like the boxer jabbing his way into your space (LH jab), then a straight RH, then the hook. But the concepts are the same.

Thx for the video.

[Mr Punch]

Regarding Phil's vid: yeah, that'll work against a lone hook-thrower. You assume that a) it's easy enough to read the hook coming and b) the hooker doesn't know to set it up properly and c) you're faster than the hooker.

A more pertinent question at this stage is what do you do about say, a jab-hook, or a jab-cross-hook... but since HW has already stated this question only relates to one hook, I don't suppose we can play any more 'what if' games...

BTW, mjw, welcome to the board: you're going to get KTFO the first time you train with a boxer.

[m1k3]

The only critique I have is that a good boxer ( average) would not attack with a hook like that.

You might if the lead hook to the head was just a set up for a follow-up hook to the body. People who double hook should be shot on sight.