I've been away from the forum for the last two weeks, but have to say that I'm impressed with the number of responses regarding iron palm and kung fu in general.
If one can get past the vitriol, there's a lot of intelligent discourse amongst the posting community. That's why I enjoy this forum so much.
As to the subject of this thread (which generated eight pages in two weeks!): whether you feel that Master Gray is legit or not, I respect your opinions, and understand, in some cases, your need to expose "phonies". The kung fu world is rife with those folk who would teach you "secret" forms, self-defense techniques, or just how to plain kick ass, and many of them are full of hooey. They're out to separate you from your money by teaching you just enough to keep you coming back to class.
Even if I listed the forms taught by Master Gray, the point is moot. He is semi-retired. Shao Lin San will be a memory in a few years. His Iron Palm training will be practiced by those who received it, without regard to your opinion. And, as I mentioned before, the curriculum is evolving under the direction of Shr Fu Ross Kellin to include more combat application (shuai jiao and san shou). Is this a legacy to be derided? In the end, what makes some forms or styles more legitimate than others? Shouldn't we ALL be practicing the forms set forth by Shao Lin Temple, if that's the case?
The truth is, when something works, it has value. And whether you get that knowledge from a 20th degree Grand Poobah or a dishwasher, is that knowledge any less valuable? But more to the point, is the knowledge applicable to everyone?
Bruce Lee got his core training from Yip Man, but, to my thinking, none of Yip Man's students ever approached Lee's skill. Playing the percentages, one might presume that Yip Man's system wasn't legit.
I personally think my kung fu sucks. But that's no reflection on Master Gray or any of my other teachers - it just encourages me to try harder, for MY own satisfaction.
Anyway, thanks to everyone who posted. Please continue to enlighten me.
It always is my dear boy.
Stealing whatever is not beyond you Mr taai "morality is relative" gihk yahn!Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
They are but how would you know? I mean you still haven´t demonstrated any significant knowledge of kung fu yet.Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
However, your therapeutic techniques are not bad. Your laughter therapy is doing me a lot of good so please keep posting on kung fu as there is nothing healthier than a good laugh.
In a just world you would be doing hard time for your "morally relative" behavior. You really are morally screwed. People like you always think that it is always fine to lie and participate in immoral behavior on the net, "because it is only the net", but there is NO DIFFERENCE!Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
You are compensating for something that is missing in your life!
I am here to discuss real kung fu and it is a Kung fu forum. Yes, I do get into flame wars with you and your kickboxer MMA-ist friends and that results in some sharp language and gags coming from my side but I don´t lie or participate in attempted character assassination while hiding behind the "internet safety" of my keyboard!
Well if I am enlightening your kung fu knowledge then that is good to know. Good deeds and all that.Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
Last edited by Hardwork108; 02-01-2009 at 08:07 PM.
when you say sanshou, are you referring to the kickboxing being taught by wu-shu coaches? They are not applications to Northern Shaolin, other than the small arsenal used for sparring. Look at any Northern Shaolin form and count the moves that are not used in sanshou, look at your fighting theories and concepts. Night and day if you ask me. What you will be left with, is standardized kickboxing (which is great, if that is your goal) and forms that now have no relevance.
The art dies right there. Congratulate yourself. You just destroyed a legacy.
Now, of course, if when you speak of sanshou, you are specifically referring to training the applications of your given style, leading up to real time, etc. Then yes, it is certainly valid.
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
ok Mr. Hardwork "categorical imperative" 108
neither have you; you just think you have been, because some of the other LARPers on here subscribe to your mythological belief system;
by that measure, from reading your posts, I've become the healthiest person on the planet
you've been reading Kant again, haven't you? I thought your mommy told you to stop that!
thanks Dr. Freud, I'll be sure to look into that
but not quite "kung fu" enough for you, I warrant...
it's simple - because from day one you have acted like an asz, from day two you have been treated like one, plain and simple; but you still think it's about your message, not your delivery, don't you? as for "hiding", LOL - you won't even give your own name, the names of who you study with, etc.;
the sad thing is that you probably actually do believe that...
Thank you.
I have because I have and I had it a long time before I came across others here who practice authentic kung fu. You'll understand when you begin to study kung fu seriously.Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
Actually you could start by paying closer attention to my kung fu posts. It is never too late to learn. There are other kung fu posters from whom even you can learn about kung fu. Try the specialists boards(eg. Northern Mantis, Shaolin kung fu, etc.) as there is some very good info available there.
I doubt it. When I said that laughter was healthy I meant from reading genuinely funny material like those written by your good self and not you misunderstanding genuine kung fu posts and laughing at them out of ignorance.Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
Try to see the difference, will you.
What is "Kant"? I hope you are not referring to something that you have between your legs instead of something else.Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
People like you never have the guts to look deep at their own selves. Besides from what I have seen, even Freud couldnt help you now.Originally Posted by taii gihk yahn
Not when it is infested with people such as your "good" self!Originally Posted by tai gihk yahn
I have acted like an "asz" because I take exception to participating or starting a single kung fu thread without some knuckleheads turning it into a (merits of) bjj, kickboxing or MMA discussion?Originally Posted by tai gihk yahn
My message was fine before the, as you put it, "MMA abuse" !Originally Posted by tai gihk yahn
The problem with self righteous hyporcrits like you is that when the MMA guys are doing all the abusing you sit silently and even contribute, like you have so many times (posting as cjurakpt).
When the intended "victim" reacts and gives as good as he gets, then you and your "tough" MMA girlfriends turn around and call him a troll and even complain to the moderator.
If that doesnt work then you invent lies and attribute posts to him that he has never made and in general do everything to pull off a complete character assassination.
This is what you, lkfmdc and Sanjuro ronin attempted with me where my posts were doctored to make out as a Nazi, satanist and antisemetic among other vile accusations. Lkfmdc is still using doctored and invented quotations in an attempt to dicredit me while you sit there watching in silence!
Your sympaphies are with the MMA-ists, period!
When it comes to them and their wrong doings, you always seem to be sufferring from moral amnesia!
Or is it a case of as you yourself shamelessly put it, "Morality is Relative"?
YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT THERE. So stop playing stupid because you are too stupid to even pull that one off!Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
You want my name so that next time you guys try to character assassinate me you can use my real name?Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
Tell me something, is the water in your part of the US flueridated? And do consume a lot of it?
The name of the person I study with was dragged here from another sight by your knucklehead friend Sanjuro ronin.
Then your other glorified kickboxing friend, lkfmdc who has apparently "studied" traditional "kung fu", took the name of my kung fu sifu and dragged it across this forum in his feeble attempts to character assassinate me. Yes, your friend sure sounds like someone who has studied traditional kung fu!
Now you want me to provide the names of other sifus? Hey, how about Aspartame, do you consume a lot of products sweetened by this artificial chemical?
Well if I am wrong then ask me to put my kung fu explanations in simpler language so that even you can understand them!Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
Last edited by Hardwork108; 02-02-2009 at 06:22 PM.
plz do not be make talk
k
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
So, you wrote pages and pages of text to "goad" me? Doesn't look very efficient nor intelligent, does it? But well it is you Taai Gihk Yahn that we are talking about. Immoral, uninformed and not so intelligent.
How can one have an intelligent "rant" with an intellectually challenged person such as yourself?Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
You didnt even understand the "mindless" rant. That means that the only thing that is left is for you to repeat read my posts, specially the ones regarding kung fu.
I believe that eventually you will see and understand some of the easier concepts involved. Good luck with that.
HW108
PS. I am happy to know that you manage to at least comprehend the aspects of my posts that referred to your immoral behavior in this forum and you psychological shortcomings. So we may not need to dig up Dr Freud to help you just yet.
kill meeee
killl meeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
It wouldn't hurt you guys to get back on topic and to ignore the troll.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
So you cannot or will not answer the questions posed to you.
Not answering the question(s) speaks volumes.
Not only does Gray not have a lineage that can be backed up, his other self made claims can be brought into question as well.
The man has a seriously questionable background.
His attempts to portray himself as a trained herbalist are laughable. By his own hand, in his books and in articles he described how to make his infamous liniment. His directions point out his total lack of knowledge when it comes to actually making real training/trauma liniments.
That he claims to be a Grandmaster when no one has ever seen/met his teacher to whom he performed a Bai See is also highly doubtful.
One is usually a shifu first, and then when you create a student population would other tersm be introduced.
He has been calling himself "Master" for many years. I even have a letter from him in response to one I wrote to him more than 20 years ago where he signs himself as Master Brian Gray. One does not really call themselves by the title. and usually only after you bring up your students to the rank of Shifu would then your students and grandstudents call you that.
He seems to have only two students that have made the ranks to master, hence he can call himself Grandmaster. Impressive that after all these years and all this skill he has only two students. One would think he would have had more students.
All the rhetoric he spews about pointing out the phonies and fakes should be directed at himself.
His hand is rather low.
Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.