Southern Similarities

[Hendrik]

Kendric.....

what is MUNG MUN?

If you are referring to the Tien Dai Hui, and the Hung Mun, Chen Kin Nan, did NOT create the Hung Mun, the Hung Mun itself is under the UMBRELLA of the Heaven and Earthy society (Tien Di Hui), and was founded by Tsai Te Chung, Fong Dai Hung, Ma Chiu Hing, Wu De Di, and Li Sik Hoi.

1, I am just having fun with that Chin Yong Martial art fiction Luu Ding Zee. the main character Wei Xiao Bo is good at nothing but end up to have seven sexy wifes and he is the student of Chen Chin Nan, and Chen Chin Nan is the right hand man of General Zhen Cheng-Kung. Read that fiction, it is funny like hell. It talks about anti-qing.....etc.





2, According to Chinese History, Hung Mun is founded by General Zhen Cheng-kung in Taiwan.

http://www.taiwanus.net/history/2/50.htm
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B4%...9C.B0.E6.9C.83


The fiction refer to this pre 1683 version



洪門之所以取名為洪門是因明太祖的年號是洪武，所以取洪為名，指天為父，指地為母，所以又名為「天地會」。 鄭成功為創始者，在洪門中稱之為「萬雲龍」或「萬大哥」，陳永華以「陳近南」之名字來傳佈。這樣的更名是避 免天地會推行反清復明時立即被清卸府注意而難於發展。所以創始者是鄭成功，而修整者是陳永華。 鄭成功在台灣首先成立「金台山」，這山名是取金台招賢之意，自為龍頭亦即「山主」，參加的皆是他的手下將土 。凡同盟者均曰「洪門」，門是家門，所以又稱為洪家，既然是一家，所以入會者不論職位高低均稱為兄弟。此為 一平等組織，以「桃園」義氣、「瓦崗」威風號召，所以有「兄不大弟不小」。又洪字是漢字去掉「中土」，即是 失去國土之意，洪門中有許多規矩是存在反清的意識，如入會時必披髮，大長辮非我族之物，見祖宗不可以滿人的 形式，衣著亦復明時衣冠，又書寫清字必無主字在內，亦即「 」有水有月，但無主。 滿字將頭去掉成為「 」，即滿無頭也。



洪门由郑成功在台湾创立的“金台山”开始。在南中 国发展组织， 练习武术，宣传反清复明思想。
鄭成功退守台灣（鄭經和鄭克塽）至1683年前，以「漢留」為代號，後，成立〈留在中土之組織〉，派五名將 領往南中國開山立堂，由翰林院學士陳永華（匿名近南?）先生留在中土主持。陳為台灣派駐中土之最高指揮，率 領各個山堂。陳永華在湖北曾居襄陽城南「白鶴洞」，號「白鶴道人」，籍傳道為名，遊歷四方，聯絡仁人義士。 「白鶴仙師」的圖像即代表漢留組織的標誌。台灣有很多地方，現在都有供奉白鶴仙師或鶴母等風俗 。



Your version is post 1683

鄭氏失敗後（清前期，1683年後），康熙清剿南方福建及廣東之反清組織，他們是由「洪門五祖」蔡德忠、方 大洪、馬超興、胡德帝、李式開等成立的。此時在民間以「天地會」之名與地方聯合組織了地下社會，主要在閩、 粵及台灣出現。




3, Chen Chin-Nan

翰林院學士陳永華 , 陳近南 . 陳永華在湖北曾居襄陽城南「白鶴洞」，號「白鶴道人」，籍傳道為名，遊歷四方，聯絡仁人義士。「白鶴仙師」 的圖像即代表漢留組織的標誌。

Some think Chen Chin-Nan is the real sifu of Fang Chi-Niang who found the White Crane Eng Chun style of Fujian. Because Chen is also nick Name the White Crane Daoist.




Actually, you can go to Taiwan to research on Chin Tai San and thier old alta...etc.


Hope these help.



PS: As for how CLF link to WCK (at least my lineage in 1850's), Hung Mun, Taiping, Shang Hai --------


As I mention in this forum and other forum a few time, Yes, there is uprising group code to identify oneself in the Red Boat era. In fact, I have post the Yik Kam's WCK lineage's Code which comes with the salutation movement.

Which is

1,

反清 復明 五湖四海 十指連心 遝我河山

Over turn the Qing, Return to Ming, Five lakes four seas, ten fingers with the same heart, return me my country.

2,

劍指膀肘逞英雄

Sword finger, Bong Elbow present to the Hero (Yin Hung)
(Yin Hung was used in that era for to refer to the Hung Mun because the pronouciation of Hung in hero is similar to the Hung of Hung Mun.)



Notice the following CLF stanza, in the following site, it starts also with Yin Hong. and we know CLF was also involved in the uprising activity in the same era of 1800's

http://www.hongshengguan.com/his.htm




This Yin Hung term also could be found in YUE YUAN / Dim Chun hall exhibit of Shang Hai. there is a picture on the Shang Hai Yin Hung Stanza some where in the old article in Rene's site.
One can sees the activities between Shang Hai, Taiping, Canton, Opera....etc at that era. Rene and Robert have written a series of details article on these.

http://www.w1ng.com/shanghai-connect...un-siu-do-wui/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDVkK...eature=related




半点子午定太平

Half Point of center spear settle the Tai Ping
( Taiping for Tai Ping Tien Kuo, )http://wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/TAIPING.HTM
----------------




PS: in fact, some of our family's ancestors are doing CLF prior to WCK. and also some have attemp to use CLF movement with WCK core jin about hundred years ago. The result of this CLF WCK fusion, evidentally fail because the WCK core fade away a few a while. lead the art to become a different type of art which is closer to CLF and losing WCK part. These are experiments the ancestors have done, I just report what has happening for your information.

[hskwarrior]

yeah, all that history is just garbage anyway.

The Tien Di Hui, is the mother of them all. And, yes, IT may have been established in the 1600's. BUT, and this is a HUGE BUT........the Hung Mun was established by the 5 shaolin monks who survived the destruction of the Temple.

The Hung Mun it self, was established in the late 1700's.....closer to 1800. You will find when you do MORE research, that there are many accounts of the History.

Suffice it to say, I will go with the history according TO the Hung Mun, and not what others have to say.

In fact, this is something i've been sitting on for some time now, not saying anything about it. But, from my research, i've been wondering if this person really was one of Chan Heung's sifu's. I'm speaking about Chan Yuen Wu. Now, one of the 5 shaolin monks of the Hung Mun (Tsai Te Chung) changed his name to Chan Yuen. And, its very well possible that Chan Yuen Wu and Chan Yuen are one and the same, because as its told, Chan Heung sent Jeung Yim to his gung fu uncle (Ching Cho or Green Grass Monk). Chan Yuen and Ching Cho were to first two of the 5 Ancestors of the Hung Mun.

[Hendrik]

yeah, all that history is just garbage anyway.

The Tien Di Hui, is the mother of them all. And, yes, IT may have been established in the 1600's. BUT, and this is a HUGE BUT........the Hung Mun was established by the 5 shaolin monks who survived the destruction of the Temple.

The Hung Mun it self, was established in the late 1700's.....closer to 1800. You will find when you do MORE research, that there are many accounts of the History.

Suffice it to say, I will go with the history according TO the Hung Mun, and not what others have to say.

In fact, this is something i've been sitting on for some time now, not saying anything about it. But, from my research, i've been wondering if this person really was one of Chan Heung's sifu's. I'm speaking about Chan Yuen Wu. Now, one of the 5 shaolin monks of the Hung Mun (Tsai Te Chung) changed his name to Chan Yuen. And, its very well possible that Chan Yuen Wu and Chan Yuen are one and the same, because as its told, Chan Heung sent Jeung Yim to his gung fu uncle (Ching Cho or Green Grass Monk). Chan Yuen and Ching Cho were to first two of the 5 Ancestors of the Hung Mun.

This is not easy because those people uses nick name and sometimes even using old stories character to cover thier real identity.

and the story of burning of Shao LIn is something the Hung Mun people uses to making thier version of "HIs-Story".

My bottom line, is I respect what the ancestors passed down, and the key point is the information to preserve the art or making the art alive.

[Hendrik]

Thanks!

Good to know these from you.

[hskwarrior]

NP hendric.....

I deleted my ancestor tablet cause you have seen it now.....doesn't need to be up any longer.

[Hendrik]

Thanks and appreciate!

[goju]

its amazing how they basically are all the same when you think of it yet they have all these unique attributes as well

mys tyle usues the whipping dan tien power from the crane
ive studied a few southern styles as well and their are so many underlying similiarities its easy to pick up one once you learned the other