Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Facepalm]

As some one new to the art and also internet savvy ive had to endure so much slander to something that ive been enjoying and that doesn't seem "made up" and ineffective to me.

It is truly nice to hear from all of you guys who've actually studied with GMT for an extended period of time. Basically you guys let me know that my line of thinking has been pretty reasonable. I dont care much about lineages either, I just know that this system has me moving fast and deceptively, teaches me a staggering array of abilities, and is getting me into the best shape of my life. Plus we get to play with weapons : )

[yeti]

From the people that actually took regular classes week in and week out from Master Sin and Hiang, all the stories just weren't that important. We wanted to A) learn not to get our a$$es handed to us in a fight and B) get in shape. SD for the most part accomplished this. Maybe if we hand pulled out a lineage chart and explained where we learned to fight to the fellow that was about to stomp us, they would have run in fear and avoided the fight altogether...we may never know.

I have never doubted the utility of our art as a means of improving physical conditioning and fighting ability. Greater confidence in oneself follows physical improvements, which I think is one of the top benefits of training in SD. And I think dedicating yourself to an art for its utility is wise, and in the hypothetical scenario where utility and perfect lineage are mutually exclusive, I think it would be a tremendous folly to choose a perfect lineage over the style that will whip your a$s into shape. With that being said, I can also understand where the people really concerned with lineage are coming from. For example, over the past decade I have very fortunately never had the occasion to use my martial training to defend myself or any one else. The last time I defended myself, I was 18 and a first-degree black belt. All I really had to do was pop the guy once in the nose and he was done, he was bleeding too badly to do anything with his hands after that. (No e-bragging) As for the rest of the guys I've trained with, I don't think any of them have had to fight with anyone either, and that's in 13+ years of training in SD. Maybe it's our area, or maybe it's a similar non-violent mindset we share. I'm pretty good at talking to people, so maybe I've avoided conflicts that way? But regardless, I'm convinced that the utility of a martial art depends on the time and place in which it's learned. If I haven't needed anything more than the basics, and we all agreed with Wookie that the Sparring Techs, Ippons, Chin Na, and Short Forms form a very useful base to our system, then what's the point in training past brown or 1st degree black? I don't need to fight for food, survival, or the opportunity to reproduce. I don't live in a rough neighborhood.

So I'm left with the physical and mental conditioning benefits. Why choose martial arts for that? I love weightlifting, I lift 5 days a week. I run on a treadmill afterward to stay lean. But to me, martial arts is FUN. It's social - you train with people who often become your friends. And I don't blame people for wanting to know more about the history of the art, because there are a lot of different personalities that find martial arts engaging. Some people are all about the usefulness of something - its utility is paramount. I think these people are less likely to feel concerned about an art's history, where the forms came from, etc. But I think a lot of people choose MA over bodybuilding or running or another sport because there is a richness of history, tradition, and foreign culture that weightlifting and running and ultimate frisbee don't have, at least to the same extent as martial arts. I think this second type of person may become almost TOO concerned with history and lineage, to the point that they might even leave the system if they become dissatisfied with what they learn about our history.

So I really feel like I see both points of view. And I really don't blame people for wanting more, just like I don't blame the guy who doesn't worry about history and lineage. I just feel like it's a logical disconnect to presume that lineage becomes unimportant because it won't save you in a fight - of course it won't save you in a fight, but again, and I can only speak for myself and those I've been close enough to, but guys who want to stomp me are pretty few and far between. I'm too nice to stomp But I think it does follow that since we don't train to survive the rare fight, we train because it's enjoyable, and tradition and history are part of that enjoyment for a large percentage of practitioners, you can't really blame them for wanting to know.

[yeti]

As some one new to the art and also internet savvy ive had to endure so much slander to something that ive been enjoying and that doesn't seem "made up" and ineffective to me.

It is truly nice to hear from all of you guys who've actually studied with GMT for an extended period of time. Basically you guys let me know that my line of thinking has been pretty reasonable. I dont care much about lineages either, I just know that this system has me moving fast and deceptively, teaches me a staggering array of abilities, and is getting me into the best shape of my life. Plus we get to play with weapons : )

It sounds like you're having fun with it - good! This is exactly as it should be. If you're not defending yourself or fighting every day, then you better enjoy the art that you practice, or else it would be cheaper to go lift weights and run. So don't let internet haters take your enjoyment from you. Remember: if you don't have haters, you're doing something wrong.

[Old Noob]

I have never doubted the utility of our art as a means of improving physical conditioning and fighting ability. Greater confidence in oneself follows physical improvements, which I think is one of the top benefits of training in SD. And I think dedicating yourself to an art for its utility is wise, and in the hypothetical scenario where utility and perfect lineage are mutually exclusive, I think it would be a tremendous folly to choose a perfect lineage over the style that will whip your a$s into shape. With that being said, I can also understand where the people really concerned with lineage are coming from. For example, over the past decade I have very fortunately never had the occasion to use my martial training to defend myself or any one else. The last time I defended myself, I was 18 and a first-degree black belt. All I really had to do was pop the guy once in the nose and he was done, he was bleeding too badly to do anything with his hands after that. (No e-bragging) As for the rest of the guys I've trained with, I don't think any of them have had to fight with anyone either, and that's in 13+ years of training in SD. Maybe it's our area, or maybe it's a similar non-violent mindset we share. I'm pretty good at talking to people, so maybe I've avoided conflicts that way? But regardless, I'm convinced that the utility of a martial art depends on the time and place in which it's learned. If I haven't needed anything more than the basics, and we all agreed with Wookie that the Sparring Techs, Ippons, Chin Na, and Short Forms form a very useful base to our system, then what's the point in training past brown or 1st degree black? I don't need to fight for food, survival, or the opportunity to reproduce. I don't live in a rough neighborhood.

So I'm left with the physical and mental conditioning benefits. Why choose martial arts for that? I love weightlifting, I lift 5 days a week. I run on a treadmill afterward to stay lean. But to me, martial arts is FUN. It's social - you train with people who often become your friends. And I don't blame people for wanting to know more about the history of the art, because there are a lot of different personalities that find martial arts engaging. Some people are all about the usefulness of something - its utility is paramount. I think these people are less likely to feel concerned about an art's history, where the forms came from, etc. But I think a lot of people choose MA over bodybuilding or running or another sport because there is a richness of history, tradition, and foreign culture that weightlifting and running and ultimate frisbee don't have, at least to the same extent as martial arts. I think this second type of person may become almost TOO concerned with history and lineage, to the point that they might even leave the system if they become dissatisfied with what they learn about our history.

So I really feel like I see both points of view. And I really don't blame people for wanting more, just like I don't blame the guy who doesn't worry about history and lineage. I just feel like it's a logical disconnect to presume that lineage becomes unimportant because it won't save you in a fight - of course it won't save you in a fight, but again, and I can only speak for myself and those I've been close enough to, but guys who want to stomp me are pretty few and far between. I'm too nice to stomp But I think it does follow that since we don't train to survive the rare fight, we train because it's enjoyable, and tradition and history are part of that enjoyment for a large percentage of practitioners, you can't really blame them for wanting to know.

I agree with this 100% and would only add that some feel like there's some marketing dishonesty that they would rather do without. If lineage is truly unimportant, then why market the lineage? Why have websites that talk about training like the monks of old? Bottom line is that I'd come to SD whether the marketing says that they train like the monks or that its an Idonesion-influenced, Shaolin-based martial art that is effective and gets you in incredible shape. Others here feel, arguably defensibly so, that the former approach (selling the direct Shaolin lineage) is slightly intellectually dishonest.

[Judge Pen]

I don't personally care about lineage as much as utility and I've never had any doubt that I was given what I asked for: great conditioning and applicable martial skill. And if the lineage is true or made up it doesn't change any of that.

But I do want to understand the origins of something that I've given 20 years of blood and sweat to (I've never cried, but I've felt like it a few times). If for no other reason it helps me put into context what I've learned and allows me to be a more effective advocate for an art I love to those that do cite lineage and history as important cornerstones to their arts. I want to undercut the arguments that the lineage is false then the art must be false as well. I can't cross hands with everyone (especially now that work/life has forced me into a lesser training mode than I would like) and not everyone can experience what I have experienced with an open mind so one of my largest assets is to be a diplomat for the art and discuss it rationally with the more skeptical (and sometimes immature and irrational as well).

[punchdrunk]

If your looking into the origins of your system, you could look for similarities in the forms from related styles. I am not an SD person but I would compare your ba gua and tai chi forms with other known families and systems to look for similarities and differences. Also when you learn say ba qua (as an ex.) do you learn different partner drills and exercises, principles and theories, conditioning and stances and movement, weapons etc. Are there any common grounds with other well known lineages? that sounds like enjoyable research for any systems advanced students to me. I wouldn't suggest sharing your results until they are pretty concrete or you have gone over them with your teacher, otherwise your just spreading gossip! Best of luck wherever your path leads you, I have never experienced SD but I am curious how the system is arranged and lurk this thread to get a little glimpse.

[goju]

lol you guys are trying so hard to convince yourselves your actually learning a legit style

[tattooedmonk]

lol you guys are trying so hard to convince yourselves your actually learning a legit style

Aren't tiger ,mantis , fist of hua, pakua , tai chi, hsing ie, etc. legitimate styles/ systems ? What constitutes a REAL style to you???






























Stop smoking crack , please!!!!

[tattooedmonk]

If your looking into the origins of your system, you could look for similarities in the forms from related styles. I am not an SD person but I would compare your ba gua and tai chi forms with other known families and systems to look for similarities and differences. Also when you learn say ba qua (as an ex.) do you learn different partner drills and exercises, principles and theories, conditioning and stances and movement, weapons etc. Are there any common grounds with other well known lineages? that sounds like enjoyable research for any systems advanced students to me. I wouldn't suggest sharing your results until they are pretty concrete or you have gone over them with your teacher, otherwise your just spreading gossip! Best of luck wherever your path leads you, I have never experienced SD but I am curious how the system is arranged and lurk this thread to get a little glimpse.

Plain and simple ,In my opinion, the basics of SD ( up to brown belt ) is like every other CMA/ MA system out there , however once you get beyond this point, SD takes you into a whole new world.

[punchdrunk]

So have you done that kind of research? I'm not asking your results unless you've discussed them with your teacher, but have you tried to find the source of the different forms? discussing your tiger crane form with a Hung gar stylist, or seeing if your 5 animal forms resemble Choy Lay Fut or Hung gar or whatever else could be interesting. I know I've found the similarities and differences between Southern kung fu systems very enjoyable and really makes me consider how the systems curriculums are organised and designed. Anyway I'll go back to lurking but thanx for sharing guys.

[sha0lin1]

Holy crap, I just spent the last hour typing a response to this thread and when I went to submit my reply it gave me an error message and lost the whole **** thing. Well, I don't have an hour to spend now I will have to speak up on this subject later, stay tuned.

[goju]

yes thoser are legitamate names of styles but what does that mean
its the art being taught not the name that determines wether its legit

so they just bs you until you get your brown then they show you actuall shaolin lol
so what is everything before that? just made up?

[tattooedmonk]

So have you done that kind of research? I'm not asking your results unless you've discussed them with your teacher, but have you tried to find the source of the different forms? discussing your tiger crane form with a Hung gar stylist, or seeing if your 5 animal forms resemble Choy Lay Fut or Hung gar or whatever else could be interesting. I know I've found the similarities and differences between Southern kung fu systems very enjoyable and really makes me consider how the systems curriculums are organised and designed. Anyway I'll go back to lurking but thanx for sharing guys.

Yes , I have. The forms, the training and conditioning are essentially the same. Something about going to Indonesia and not Hong Kong changed the flavor a little bit.It's all the same except for the uniforms and the terminology sometimes used and the fact that SD is definately a HARD style compared to the way I have seen most people practice and teach the same material.

[tattooedmonk]

yes thoser are legitamate names of styles but what does that mean
its the art being taught not the name that determines wether its legit

so they just bs you until you get your brown then they show you actuall shaolin lol
so what is everything before that? just made up?

What level did you get up to in SD / CSC??

Thats not what I said. Its not just cut and dry as you think. Because you are unhappy does not mean that I am happy. I believe that is refered to as a logical fallacy.

What I am saying is that the basics are the basics, period. There might be slight variations , however a punch is a punch, a kick is a kick and a stance is a stance no matter if you say it in chinese, japanese or fuk-u-anese.

If you use the right area of contact, the proper bio mechanics , range of motion, etc. then that will determine as to whether it is useful or not.

Your views on this subject are all @$$ backwards.

I would say I am not impressed by your pics . A balerina can do that . What I want , and I am sure most people want, is to see is your training and fighting.

Until then I think you should have a cup of STFU!!!

[goju]

i got up to green in a about three months i spared my self the embarassment of getting by brown and left

uh huh sure they are not impressive i could post anything of myself preforming and no matter what you sd guys on here would try to make some bs up about it and then not post any of your own lol