Why is Internal training fail?

[Wayfaring]

The only way to develop fighting skill is TO BE A FIGHTER.

I am somewhat convinced through evidence on this forum that Terence has been kidnapped by aliens, held on a space ship and had scientific experiments performed on his brain where they injected 2 or 3 cells of the brain of Dana White.

That's why you see like a slight version of Tourette's syndrome where we'll be trotting along a thread having a conversation, and then all the sudden, out of the blue....

"DO YOU WANNA BE A F'IN FIGHTER?????"

comes out. Usually not relevant to the conversation. Usually not relevant to any social context. Usually not relevant to the nearness of shiny objects.

"DO YOU WANNA BE A F'IN FIGHTER?????"

C'mon, now.


PS Just jerking your chain there a little, T.

[t_niehoff]

I am somewhat convinced through evidence on this forum that Terence has been kidnapped by aliens, held on a space ship and had scientific experiments performed on his brain where they injected 2 or 3 cells of the brain of Dana White.

That's why you see like a slight version of Tourette's syndrome where we'll be trotting along a thread having a conversation, and then all the sudden, out of the blue....

"DO YOU WANNA BE A F'IN FIGHTER?????"

comes out. Usually not relevant to the conversation. Usually not relevant to any social context. Usually not relevant to the nearness of shiny objects.

"DO YOU WANNA BE A F'IN FIGHTER?????"

C'mon, now.


PS Just jerking your chain there a little, T.

Yes, you're very funny. Almost as funny as Ned. I could point out that HFY seems to do a good job of training clowns -- just to jerk your chain a little.

But what you quoted is the truth: you only develop fighting skill by being a fighter.

[Wayfaring]

Yes, you're very funny. Almost as funny as Ned. I could point out that HFY seems to do a good job of training clowns -- just to jerk your chain a little.

Hey, I take pride in working to maintain a sense of humor. Or as one of my coaches says "don't train angry".

[JPinAZ]

It really bother me when I see some so called internal stylist cannot show and explain how to do basic Fajin. or talking theory one way but cant implement their stuffs.

Agreed.
Now, since you brought up the subject, I'm curious if you can show and explain basic fajin in application? (that's fighting if you didn't know). Hopefully you can impliment it in sparring or fighting to prove for yourself. Otherwise, you are only acting just like those that bother you. Not a healthy way to live...

So, without knowing how to do Fajin and Jie Jin it is hopeless even to mention using the IMA one practice in fighting. it is just Hopeless and Fantasy of moving arms around, hitting around, or dance around which actually do nothing and improve nothing. using those to against mma or Kyokushin? those are joke.

Good, so then you can use the IMA you practice in fighting then? If so, how is that possible to know if, as you say, you do not spar or fight?
You should be careful who you call a 'joke', because you are sounding to be the same as the fantasy people you are speaking of..

So, why Do I go doing those research to identify the White Crane and Emei DNA in SLT? because one needs a direction to go back to the IMA.

I'm curious why you would do that as well. Where is the proof that WCK was an IMA, but the IMA is now lost in the first place? Maybe the WCK you practice is incomplete, or you can't make it work, so now you go back to other arts and add stuff in in an attempt to fill holes? And now you have crane/emei hybrid WCK. Not saying this is the case, but sounds possible....

IMO, I find it rather silly that you bring up this subject on a WCK forum, say that today's WCK has lost the IMA, yet you are essentially going to go back in time to find it again. The whole premise is rediculous.
Maybe we should first discuss whether or not your hypothesis is correct in the first place!

[anerlich]

So, why is Internal training fail to deliver?

Lack of clear goals, focus, and means of measuring progress and accomplishment or even a definition of what progress and accomplishment might be.

Also because the field is full of charlatans, airheads, and fruitcakes.

[chusauli]

The best part about your post was this sentence. Most do not want to be FIGHTERS, I for one include myself in that group. I practice WC because it is enjoyable, and the training system poses great interest for me, plus I like share it with others. I don't see too many other people here that are proclaiming to be fighters, so I don't understand T's obsession with people saying that is what they are?? Were here to discuss WC, it's concepts, prinicples, training curriculum and experiences with it all. I agree with T, in the fact that WC is a training system to teach you the things that WC teaches one, and that it in and of itself is not fighting, but sometimes fighting is not the point.

James

James,

I can't speak for Terence. He states his opinion, this is a discussion forum and he lets all of know where he stands.

WCK is a martial art - combat is inherent in it. It does not mean violence. Fighting in competition is for some, but not everyone. For others getting stronger, sharpening reflexes, exercise, health, social get together, fun, culture, losing weight is the attraction of engaging in a martial art.

T makes some good points, after all, what we do is not playing with dolls and imaginary tea parties, or patty cake. He reminds you what the goals should be. Of course, the Dana White comparison is quite hilarious... MMA is great, but also a sport. They do train hard and realistically. Since I know T's background and profession and things that have happened to him in real life, I accept his drive in making what he does effective and realistic. He was once attacked by a knife wielding maniac and had to defend himself (and he did so quite effectively). He also deals with "allegedly" innocent people who are on trial for murder or other "alleged" crimes, so his clientele is quite, ahem, tough - himself being one of St. Louis' (Murder capital of the USA) top criminal attorneys. T's attitude is not unlike many cops and LE I have known.

In the world there are fighters and there are lovers. WCK is what it is for the practitioner. Anyone's criticism or comments should not deter you from what you get out of it.

Best regards,

[Hendrik]

Lack of clear goals, focus, and means of measuring progress and accomplishment or even a definition of what progress and accomplishment might be.

Also because the field is full of charlatans, airheads, and fruitcakes.

Yup. Totally agree.

[Hendrik]

Where is the proof that WCK was an IMA,

You dont do WCK right?

Otherwise you will not asking for the proof.


BTW.

the topic is why is Internal training fail? in case you dont know how to read.

In case you dont know Internal Training in WCK, please go some where and not disturb others' discussion.

Thanks.

[JPinAZ]

You dont do WCK right?
Otherwise you will not asking for the proof.

BTW.
the topic is why is Internal training fail? in case you dont know how to read.

In case you dont know Internal Training in WCK, please go some where and not disturb others' discussion.

Thanks.

Yup, I train WCK. And I know the topic, and can read (BTW, it's "Why is internal training failing", so might want to watch the 'don't know how to read' crap, or I'll start up with the can't you write crap )

Anyway, am I to assume then that this subject has nothing to do with WCK? If not, why is it here?
If it does have something to do with WCK, and from what you wrote about "White Crane and Emei DNA in SLT" and it's connection to IMA I'm guessing it does. So, my post stands.

But I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions, so I am wondering if you truely intended to "discuss in a professional way" or just here to talk to us and not discuss?
I'll wait for your reply to my last post.

[Hendrik]

Yup, I train WCK. And I know the topic, and can read (BTW, it's "Why is internal training failing", so might want to watch the 'can I read' crap, or I'll start up with the can't you write crap )

which WCK do you practice?

could you please get into sharing Why is Internal training fail?

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is a type of internal art

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLiHEkDRjS8

While Tensho may be an internal kata, to categorize kyokuhsin as internal is quite incorrect, at least in the core development stages.
All systems become "internal" after time.

[bennyvt]

i totally agree with the internal is crap but i have a problem with the fighter name. Boxers are boxers, wrestlers are wrestlers. All can choose to fight but it doesnt mean they do. They any or wrestle. Rolling on ground is not fightin, fighting is fighting. Every ma does there own version. But he you want to call yourself a fighter them you have to fight. Not train hard. There is no way to replicate it. You can get close. As a swimmer i can swim for fun or compete but not the same as swimming for your life. Maybe just words but you seen to have a problem with the term being used. I train hard. Spar with some grapplers and have had a few fights but i still would not call myself a fighter.

[m1k3]

Hendrick, since there is a lot of confusion on this subject, what do you mean by "Internal Art"?

In my mind it fall anywhere in the range from:

1. Keep a cool head

2. Focus on the current situation, be here now.

3. Mind-body coordination or integration.

4. Being in the Zone. Anyone who has played sports will know what I mean.

5. Mystical stuff.


This is not a joke and I would appreciate it if you would try to answer for me.

Thanks in advance,

Mike.

Oh yeah, somewhere you asked about lineage and how far it goes back.

My primary lineage isn't WC, it was started in a tavern in Philadelphia Pennsylvania in the Us on November 10th, 1775.

It is a long and noble lineage of fighters.

Semper Fi!

[t_niehoff]

i totally agree with the internal is crap but i have a problem with the fighter name. Boxers are boxers, wrestlers are wrestlers. All can choose to fight but it doesnt mean they do. They any or wrestle. Rolling on ground is not fightin, fighting is fighting.

Fighting is anytime you face a genuinely resisting opponent who is using high levels of physical force to defeat you. That's the underlying common demoninator in every fight. The ruleset -- boxing or wrestling or whatever -- isn't what determines that. Focusing on the ruleset or absence of ruleset (it's not a "real fight" unless fill-in-the-blank) only confuseds the issue.

Every ma does there own version. But he you want to call yourself a fighter them you have to fight. Not train hard. There is no way to replicate it. You can get close. As a swimmer i can swim for fun or compete but not the same as swimming for your life. Maybe just words but you seen to have a problem with the term being used. I train hard. Spar with some grapplers and have had a few fights but i still would not call myself a fighter.

If you regularly went to a pool and swam would you call yourself a swimmer?

It doesn't matter if you are swimming for your life or swimming for fun, you're still a swimmer. The potential consequences don't change that fact.

The problem is that people focus on assaults and only think of them as "real fights." Fighting is fighting. If you are facing a genuinely resisting opponent who is using high levels ofphysical force to defeat you, he's fighting with you. This is important since you only develop skill at handling such a situation by practicing doing that -- by practicing dealing with a genuinely resisting opponent who is using high levels of phsyical force against you. In other words, you develop fighting skill by fighting.

[JPinAZ]

Most people that have been in a 'real' fight view 'fighting' as no rules, no ref, no pads, no cage (well, unless in jail), weapons applicable, keep hitting after person is out, no bell, no judges, anything goes, 2 or 3 on 1, etc...
Some call sport fighting 'fighting', but my guess is those people have never been in a real fight and faced real fear, so don't know the difference. Now, I'm not saying sport fighting isn't something to fear, and you can't get hurt and it's not real. But, there is a difference, and I think most people in the real world should know this.