Is there a difference to you...

[AdrianK]

Is there a difference to you, between what someone is taught, and what they know?

Many people criticize Bruce Lee for only learning part of the WC system, make no mistake - This isn't a Pro-Bruce thread, just using him as an example.

So how would you feel about learning under an instructor who learned part of the system, but learned much through fighting, versus someone who learned an entire system, but didn't necessarily have the same experience?

I bring this up because when I was years younger, my instructor pushed me to open up a school once I achieved "Black Belt". Once I achieved this rank, I didn't open up a school in order to focus on broadening my knowledge through fighting and studying other systems and ideas... But some people open up their schools straight out of achieving their rank, and I feel like this can be detrimental to their understanding of fighting.

What do you think, of any of the points or questions, above?

[-木叶-]

Personally, I respect both but I will learn from the instructor who knows
The full system from his sifu. You can always gain combat experience but you
may not get the chance to learn the whole system again.

Furthermore, unless the person is a genius in fighting, it will be harder
to proceed on to know the essence of the entire system. Due to this, much
of the combat experience can only be his current knowledge of the system.

As an example, Let's say I only know bong sao, I can use forever bong sao applications without
jam sao etc, my experience can only come from multitudes of bong sao
applications and missing others.

[sihing]

No one can teach you fighting, that is something you develop on your own through experience. You could have been a student of Ali, and it wouldn't help you one bit if you don't have his experience, natural abilities or intent. An instructor/coach can teach you a style or training system for you to develop things within you, for you then to develop further as you see fit. All of us that has ever had an instructor should know about this, otherwise learning anything from anyone would be a useless endeavour. So whether or not an instructor is fighter or not is of no relevance to me, as long as I find value in what they are teaching that is all that matters.

James

P.S. I have not learned the entire WSL system, but have been teaching what I do know for about 3yrs now (i find that teaching is a method of learning for me), with all of the students saying what they have learned has helped them with dealing with other Martial Artists in sparring and/or in altercations on the street. You can learn from each person you meet if you choose to, the question is whether or not you value what is being learned.

[Liddel]

The way i look at it Adrian is that a teacher should only be giving out high level belts sashes certificates etc if the student has fighting experience !

If they only know the systems material they shouldnt be getting high level anything IMHO.

That way, no probs opening a school right away....

No matter what the industry you dont want people like half my highschool teachers.... institutionalised (sp?) with no real life experience of thier own to speak of

DREW

[sanjuro_ronin]

Techniques can be taught, even principles, attributes must be learned.
In the end, MA is like any other physical endevour, particularly any other physical performance endevour.
Some things can be taught, but all things are "perfected" by doing, i.e: learning.
You can be taught the proper aligment of a technique, but until you do it, consistently and against resistence, you will never learn it the right way.

[TenTigers]

if someone is a "natural" or aggressive, or just muscles his way through, it is no substitute for knowledge and understanding of a system, especially one with deeper theory and concepts.

[stonecrusher69]

Is there a difference to you, between what someone is taught, and what they know?

Many people criticize Bruce Lee for only learning part of the WC system, make no mistake - This isn't a Pro-Bruce thread, just using him as an example.

So how would you feel about learning under an instructor who learned part of the system, but learned much through fighting, versus someone who learned an entire system, but didn't necessarily have the same experience?

I bring this up because when I was years younger, my instructor pushed me to open up a school once I achieved "Black Belt". Once I achieved this rank, I didn't open up a school in order to focus on broadening my knowledge through fighting and studying other systems and ideas... But some people open up their schools straight out of achieving their rank, and I feel like this can be detrimental to their understanding of fighting.

What do you think, of any of the points or questions, above?

actually this is what happened to me. I wanted to learn WC but my first teacher only knew Jun Fan so I learned what I could from him then left. He was a good fighter and had knowledge in other arts,but I just wanted to know as much as I could about WC. From then on I just studied WC and look for other teachers to take me further and deeper into the system. IMO once you learn as much as you can then experience is the most important aspect of developing as a M.A.

[t_niehoff]

No one can teach you fighting, that is something you develop on your own through experience. You could have been a student of Ali, and it wouldn't help you one bit if you don't have his experience, natural abilities or intent. An instructor/coach can teach you a style or training system for you to develop things within you, for you then to develop further as you see fit. All of us that has ever had an instructor should know about this, otherwise learning anything from anyone would be a useless endeavour.

I agree. I'd only add that it is our opponents/sparring partners that teach us to fight (use our WCK).

So whether or not an instructor is fighter or not is of no relevance to me, as long as I find value in what they are teaching that is all that matters.

Almost anyone can teach you to play golf or tennis. They don't need to be good or great players themselves. But their ability to play the game does limit them on what advice, tips, etc. they can give a beginning player. While a poor golfer may teach you the game, you can't become a good player listening to the advice of a poor golfer. Listening to them will only make you a poor golfer.

Good fighters or fight trainers can give you tips, adivce, notice your flaws, help you find answers, etc. You don't need good coaching to become good (some athletes get fairly good without solid coaching just from solid practice) but it does help and expedites your development.