how is bullshido?

[Shaolin Wookie]

As a professional martial arts historian, you're not familiar with this? Pankration was around at least a century before Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha), Alexander brought it to India when he invaded, and then there's the quasi-mythical story of the Indian "Bodhidharma" bringing Martial Arts to China.

Occam's razor dictates that Pankration being the root of a formalized fighting system (or Martial Art) is much more likely than Shaolin; when all dates and facts are evaluated objectively and without cultural bias or predisposition.

LOL,...every animal knows how to fight. Apes are better fighters than humans barehand. Considering we're really not that far down the evolutionary chain, any assumption that codified systems of fighting were nation-specific with a single root and method of training---that's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

How do apes fight? They hit, they run, they wrestle, they ground and pound. Not MMA...LOL. Just fighting. All greater apes know how to do it. Some just do it a little better than others.

[Phrost]

LOL,...every animal knows how to fight. Apes are better fighters than humans barehand. Considering we're really not that far down the evolutionary chain, any assumption that codified systems of fighting were nation-specific with a single root and method of training---that's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

How do apes fight? They hit, they run, they wrestle, they ground and pound. Not MMA...LOL. Just fighting.

Which is why I specified "formal system of fighting".

If you're going to respond to my posts, it'd be helpful to read them first.

[TenTigers]

As I recall, Bodhidarma is not credited for bringing Martial Arts to China, but bringing Chan Buddhism and Buddhist Ch'i-Gung,Dao-Yin, to China via Shaolin. This was then combined with the Martial Arts which was already practiced in China prior to Bodhidarma's arrival.

[Phrost]

As I recall, Bodhidarma is not credited for bringing Martial Arts to China, but bringing Chan Buddhism and Buddhist Ch'i-Gung,Dao-Yin, to China via Shaolin. This was then combined with the Martial Arts which was already practiced in China prior to Bodhidarma's arrival.

Any time you have organized warfare you have Martial Arts to some extent. There's no doubt that people practiced stabbing and clubbing each other as a part of military service.

But the Greeks took that training to a level that the ancient world hadn't seen, involving discipline, esprit de corps, and hand to hand tactics (which were practiced via Pankration).

It's precisely this formalized, disciplined training structure that was lacked by just about every other military in the ancient world including the Persians, which lead to Alexander steamrolling all the way through to India.

And the transmission of culture from India to China is self-evident.

[Scott R. Brown]

Any time you have organized warfare you have Martial Arts to some extent. There's no doubt that people practiced stabbing and clubbing each other as a part of military service.

But the Greeks took that training to a level that the ancient world hadn't seen, involving discipline, esprit de corps, and hand to hand tactics (which were practiced via Pankration).

It's precisely this formalized, disciplined training structure that was lacked by just about every other military in the ancient world including the Persians, which lead to Alexander steamrolling all the way through to India.

And the transmission of culture from India to China is self-evident.

Uhhh...actually that was the Macedonians! They also had the first professional army.

[Phrost]

Uhhh...actually that was the Macedonians! They also had the first professional army.

Splitting hairs like the gordian knot.

[Scott R. Brown]

Splitting hairs like the gordian knot.

Actually no...while the Macedonians considered themselves descended from Greeks, the Greeks did not consider them Greek!

[TenTigers]

I get the same thing from Chinese not accepting me as Asian, even though my family is from Russia....

[Scott R. Brown]

I get the same thing from Chinese not accepting me as Asian, even though my family is from Russia....

You must not be civilized then!

[brianlkennedy]

I might recommend (even though it is kind of immodest) this book as a reference for folks interested in Chinese martial arts history:
Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey
http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Martia...9057107&sr=1-1

I would also recommend everything and anything written by Stan Henning (several of his articles are available on the internet).

If one can read chinese, then things written by Prof. Ma Ming-de or Prof Kang Ge-wu are good resources.

None of those people would subscribe to the view that Chinese martial arts owes much of anything to the west until the arrival of western boxing into China in the mid 1800s. Western boxing (and Japanese jiu jitsu/judo) both had a strong impact on Chinese martial arts---but not until the 1800s.

take care,
Brian

[taai gihk yahn]

Splitting hairs like the gordian knot.

Mixed metaphor of the year award...

[YouKnowWho]

http://www.combatshuaichiao.com/history.html

[Scott R. Brown]

Mixed metaphor of the year award...

Maybe the rope the knot was tied from was made out of hair!

[Scott R. Brown]

I might recommend (even though it is kind of immodest) this book as a reference for folks interested in Chinese martial arts history:
Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey
http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Martia...9057107&sr=1-1


Brian

Yeah! I own it, I recommend it too!

[Phrost]

I might recommend (even though it is kind of immodest) this book as a reference for folks interested in Chinese martial arts history:
Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey
http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Martia...9057107&sr=1-1

I would also recommend everything and anything written by Stan Henning (several of his articles are available on the internet).

If one can read chinese, then things written by Prof. Ma Ming-de or Prof Kang Ge-wu are good resources.

None of those people would subscribe to the view that Chinese martial arts owes much of anything to the west until the arrival of western boxing into China in the mid 1800s. Western boxing (and Japanese jiu jitsu/judo) both had a strong impact on Chinese martial arts---but not until the 1800s.

take care,
Brian

Would love to read it. Send me a promo copy and I'll post up a review on Bullshido (with a link back to your Amazon page).