Question for Wah Lum people

[argentino]

Pong Lai

Chinese characters did not go well...

How do you like "vital organs" as a translation for gao huang.

1) san zu ding li
2) zuo you ban jiao
3) long xing san die
4) ling long da zhuan

Easier to read now. What are these names referring to ?

Best regards

El argentino

[9dragonshijin]

"Court gowns of red and purple are not attractive.
Instead, I love white clouds embracing emerald mountaintops.
So i sit in solitude, forgetting the year or month
While in the mundane world below, lifetimes and generations
pass."

good luck

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

To All
All the styles are MADE UP and all the styles are a mix of moves and techniques gathered from personal experiences of the originator and people around him. The only question is did the originator have the experience and know what he was doing? For some, how long ago the system was created is also important. Most likely the older styles would not have lasted unless they worked. That doesn't diminish the practicality of newer styles.

18Elders
Everyone is on the cruise. Give me some time. After thinking about it I seem to remember hearing the name Saint Hands before. Probably around the time SC was asking about it.

I agree with you 100% about drilling. That's something I don't think we do enough of around here. Coming from a Karate background I know how important drills are in training. And Karate is easy (sorry Karate guys) compared to Kung Fu. I believe even the most flashy and outlandish techniques could work if you drill them enough but then I'm in the minority with that kind of thinking. If you can execute a complex move smoothly and quickly it will work. And the only way to reach that level is to drill it over and over until you can't stand doing it anymore and then do it some more. :-)

You also can't train reflexes by doing forms! Two man sets and sparring are a must.

As far as getting answers I believe once you reach a certain level and understand theory you can find the applications and even make up some of your own. For all my years in Kenpo I came away with more knowledge of how to move, how to defend, how to attack, where to attack than I did specific techniques. I have a terrible memory so I operate more on theory than specifics. It's much easier for me. That's why I have trouble with my forms. I know what I'm supposed to be doing so I do the move accordingly. I'm only precise when it makes a difference in the application not whether it looks right or not.

Once I show a student a few applications from forms and they understand what to look for they get excited and start finding the meanings for other moves in the form. Some get it right away, others take longer. If you constantly have to have everything explained then maybe you should take up something simpler like TKD (sorry TKD guys).

I wish we could all be one big happy Kung Fu family but that doesn't seem to work in reality. It would be interesting to speak with Master Shr but it probably stir up trouble. Master Chan is my Sifu and I guess I'm a little old fashion myself. I would never disrespect him by going behind his back to another Sifu. I am open to discussing Martial Arts with anyone and generally like to make friends with others in the Martial Arts community but for any type of formal training I would get Master Chan's permission first. I'm thankful for what I've learned so far. How much I learn in the future is yet to be seen. I may end up being an old timer like Bob Rosen (I'm not saying you're old Bob :-)) or I might move on, it's not up to me.

NorthernMantis and 7kicks
Apparently not everyone got the same level of training as your Sifu's received. Consider yourselves lucky. I suspect they both learned approximately the same time period. Way back. I don't know who 7kicks Sifu is so I'm not sure.

BTW, there sure is a lack of information in all these profiles. Why is that?

Anyhow, 18Elders was in China when Troy fought but it was in the ring, not in the street. NorthernMantis may be confusing this with a story from an earlier China trip in which the fight was in a alley and it wasn't Troy.

Joe Mantis
Funny how Kung Fu people do the fanciest forms in competition and then kickbox when sparring. I've got video of tournaments from CA and the guy doing the fancy Monkey form didn't use any Monkey moves when he sparred. Ditto for pretty much all the styles. Tough time spelling Troy's last name? :-) All those people left for different reasons but there is something of a pattern. People drop out for different reasons anywhere from the first month to 15 years. If you think you've outgrown where you are then move on to something else. No problem.

Pong Lai
I can't see the Chinese even though I'm running NJStar Communicator. I'm not even getting it pasting into a translator. I don't know why. For those interested the Chinese to Pinyin translator is at http://www.ocrat.com/reaf/reanG.html

woliveri
I've met John Quinen. He was teaching Kung Fu to a few private students at a Kenpo school in Oviedo. Haven't seen him in quite a few years but last I heard he was teaching Ashtanga Yoga at the sportsplex in Altamonte Springs.

Man, for someone who doesn't talk much in person I sure do write a lot!

[18elders]

In your original post about the 2 schools performances, you make it sound as if you are just a spectator. I ask then how a spectator would know the form the guy did was leapord form???
It is obvious you are from the wah lum school and you were taking a stab at the other school. Busted CH!

[18elders]

The result was that the agressor was disabled and could no longer walk.Lee Kwan Shan told his ex-friend to leave town with his school.Master Chan was rith there when it happened and he was a really young boy.

However before the Yang stylist left with his school, his family begged Lee Kwan Shan to take his younger brother as a disciple and be taugh at his school.That disciple was Mr. Chan Wan Ching, si gung's older kung fu brother.What a mind blower huh?


In your story here it says that the family begged LKS to take the younger brother as a disciple and that it was chan wan ching.
If chan poi saw this then was he already a student of LKS and if so then he is chan wan ching's older kung fu brother.
If he was just there by chance and chan wan ching trained with LKS for 10 years then how old was chan poi when this happened?
If chan poi started when he was 6 and LKS died when he was 10 how did chan wan ching train with LKS for 10 years, that means chan poi was 1 when he saw this? don't think he would remember it and why was he with LKS at 1?

[whitewhirlwhind]

18 elders

It is true that I am with Wah Lum. It is an honour, for me, to study under such a strong-minded, knowledgeable and skillfull teacher and practitioner of the system. But any serious kung fu student would have recognized the form. And any serious kung fu student would recognize (or work to recognize) applications without the applications being spoon fed to them. A wise teacher once told me I should find six applications (I rarely find six!?) for every move in a form--that is higher level teaching and thinking.

As with the alleged e-mail you possess of a certain sifu in the WLPM system, you hold on to things much too long. Internally, one who does this will ultimately suffer. All people who hold regrets do. You and the others who seek to question why the WLPM system was not handed to them on a platter should simply move on. Focus on your current systems. Learn what you can from your current teachers.

Maybe we all spend too much time in an attempt to answer asinine questions on this thread? Maybe we should all practice our forms and theorize about the applications we can find? Maybe we should all be more secure in our current systems, and apply ourselves to them?

But maybe some people like to suffer.

[vixie]

"BUSTED"?????

Good grief! ....YOU'RE supposed to be setting an example for CHILDREN!!!???

....oh well, I suppose those who can see will see...and in the end we all die anyway.

Good luck man, I hope you find peace in solitude and silence...


p.s.
Feel free to attack me now, JoeMantis...I'm sure we're all waiting with baited breath for your witty retort...

[isol8d]

Where was this exposition? When was it? What schools were involved? Inquiring minds want to be in the know.

[vixie]

you rock

[18elders]

You don't understand about he apps, it is not spoon fed, you can watch someone throw a baseball, sure it looks like i can do that , but can you throw a curve, breaker etc., someone shows you the technique to it. It is the true deeper knowledge of the technique that is taught.

Mantis catches the cicada, give me 6 different applications for it and no you can't use eye poke as one of them.

[Pong Lai]

argentino:

the names are that of some warm up exercises. I have the exercises, but needed Tainan Mantis' assistance putting a name and movement together on those 3. Have an educated clue, just needed his confirmation. Putting together info for my students and wouldn't provide them incomplete info.

Chinese should be able to be encoded by selecting "view" , "encoding" on your windows. If it comes from me, it would be in Traditional characters. Easier to read than my crude translations.

Who is mantis and who is not? This is intersting and can be simply answered. All known mantis styles have movements that you will find in any particular one of the styles, whether plum flower, 7*, etc.

Just ask yourself or your teacher, does my mantis style have "Go Luo Tsai"? Praying Mantis Catches the Cicada? And if so, ask then what are at least 5 application and counters of each.
These of course are just the tip of the ice berg in regards to foundational tech./appl.

There should be no guessing game in understanding applications, or any need to meditate deep in the dark woods in order to become enlightened of each attack & defense. Why reinvent the wheel? Apllications / Fighting was invented long ago and perfected by our Mantis ancestors. Train Hard, be loyal, shut up and practice, and your teacher will teach you. Make contact when you are drilling and you will be enlightened quickly in what you need to do to progress.

And if you have been with someone for 2,3,5,10 years and still do not have a clue how to use your techniques, (haven't been shown a thing) you are not going to wake up some day and obtain all that missing knowledge. Relocate. It must be a give and take relationship between the teacher and student. Student gives his dedication and loyalty (spiritually "not religious" & monetary) and the teacher will in turn pass along what he has worked so hard to attain.

Maybe I am wrong in this philosophy, perhaps I should STOP teaching applications and two person drills/forms and revert to the humble way of letting the students do all the work. That way I could be on line more often!?!?!

Comes to another point. "Peace, Love, Unity":
If some discussion get out of text and a bit heated, that is fine!
COme on, we study "Martial ARts", just a humble name for "The art of kicking ass." If you do not have a little fire in you, forget the apllications, two person forms/ drills, and sparring, take up pottery and meditation.

[18elders]

grow up, funny why don't you say that to you buddy whitewhirlwind. It was their comment about the demo that got it going.
An example for kids, yes, fight for what you believe in, seek knowledge.

[woliveri]

vixie you said you weren't coming back. What happened? Please commit to your previous statement. Why have you lied to us?

[vixie]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

Good one...

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

The Chan Wan Ching story can be found here http://www.kungfumagazine.com/HomePage/eZine/eZine.htm

Top right COLUMNISTS drop down to Mimi Chan to read the article.

vixie
Welcome back. If you don't like the negativity turning your back on it won't make it go away. Deflect and counter, neutralize the attack. :-)

whitewirlwind
Everyone has their own path to follow. If you're happy with where you are and what you're learning then stick with it and enjoy. What's right for you and what's right for 18Elders is entirely different. I've seen good and bad in all the schools I've been in and I can't say one is better than the other, just different. I have my preferences but that's my opinion, what's right for me. Other most likely wouldn't agree and I respect their opinion but still believe what I believe. Guess I'm just stubborn like that.


I don't know who all the players are here but I do know most of you and you're all good people. You should expouse the merits of your school or Sifu rather than elevating yourself or your school by picking apart others. I think we could all gain a lot more knowledge while at the same time deciding what's right for each of us.

I am getting old, I'm starting to sound like a wimp. 20 years ago I would have called you all out over some of these remarks. :-)