Wing Chun or CLF?

[Phil Redmond]

However, various Wing Chun lines use the Weng character as well. Due to the similarities of the characters, and given the supposed evolution of WC, could the Wing Chun characters not just be an evolution of the Weng Chun ones?

Which other lines use the "Weng" character? Weng Chun's history is different from Wing Chun and from what I've been told by native speakers that the differences in the characters distinguish the lineages. Now if I got it wrong I'd appreciate your input.

[Ben Gash]

Apparently Pan Nam, Pao Fa Lien and Hung Suen use it. They also don't share the Ng Mui/Yim Wing Chun creation myth, and describe the term Wing Chun as having revolutionary significance.
The characters are actually discussed on p.108 of Complete Wing Chun, and it suggests that either the characters were changed for reasons of secrecy, or that due to the oral transmission between semi-literate practitioners it just morphed back and forth.

[CFT]

The Chan Yiu Min (son of Chan Wah Sun) line use Weng Chun (everlasting spring) rather than Wing Chun (praise spring).

It's just not conclusive that use of either term can reliably determine lineage.

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...=WCP.ChanYuMin

[Hendrik]

The Chan Yiu Min (son of Chan Wah Sun) line use Weng Chun (everlasting spring) rather than Wing Chun (praise spring).

It's just not conclusive that use of either term can reliably determine lineage.

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...=WCP.ChanYuMin

If one check into this Chan Yiu Min's Weng Chun naming, one could read information from the chinese web that bring up the reason behind Chan's naming.

Chan's Weng Chun is a hybird of Small Hung kuen is what the chinese analysis suggest.



Wing Chun is definately not Weng Chun, a different style. that is forsure.

[lkfmdc]

the oral transmission between semi-literate practitioners

never doubt that a poorly educated, semi to NON literate population had effects upon stuff like this and even more importantly the HISTORIES being taught

[TenTigers]

Young Chun Fujien Pai Ho-Wing Chun Fukien Bak Hok has in their lineage that Fong Qinyang passed on her father's art of White Crane. They were from Wing Chun (young Chun) County. Their documentation is a bit more reliable than all the other stories, yet most Wing Chun schools seem to completely ignore this, and continue with their "Traditional History."
Fine. I am not a WCK hater. Frankly, I don't buy that Fong Wing Cun married Hung Hei Guen and taught her Crane techniques to him either.
Nor do I buy that Adator witnessed a fight between an albino ape and a white crane.
Wudan and Chang Seng-Feng are highly doubtful
Lu Tung Bin founding the Dragon Gate sect is dobtful
immaculate conception? doubtful
alien abduction?
well, that I would have to argue with. In fact, just the other day, I witnessed an alien abduction of sorts. These aliens grabbed this guy, and beat him up pretty bad. I'm not sure what it was all about, cuz I don't speak Spanish...

[Phil Redmond]

Apparently Pan Nam, Pao Fa Lien and Hung Suen use it. They also don't share the Ng Mui/Yim Wing Chun creation myth, and describe the term Wing Chun as having revolutionary significance.
The characters are actually discussed on p.108 of Complete Wing Chun, and it suggests that either the characters were changed for reasons of secrecy, or that due to the oral transmission between semi-literate practitioners it just morphed back and forth.

Thanks, I never knew that. The learning process never ends for me.

[AdrianK]

These aliens grabbed this guy, and beat him up pretty bad. I'm not sure what it was all about, cuz I don't speak Spanish...

To be fair, you're in new york dude, they were probably citizens

Unless you're talking about aliens from canada?!

[TenTigers]

yeah, they say that if they dropped a nuclear bomb on NYC, thousands of Americans would be killed.

[Vajramusti]

Apparently Pan Nam, Pao Fa Lien and Hung Suen use it. They also don't share the Ng Mui/Yim Wing Chun creation myth, and describe the term Wing Chun as having revolutionary significance.
The characters are actually discussed on p.108 of Complete Wing Chun, and it suggests that either the characters were changed for reasons of secrecy, or that due to the oral transmission between semi-literate practitioners it just morphed back and forth.
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People can use what suits them but there are fundamental structural and other differences involved her for all of them to be lumped together.
Ip Man wasn't "semi-literate" and he used the wing chun and not weng chun characters in his calligraphy and has said that they were different styles.

Pan Nam mixed in hung gar, po fa lien has its own stepping and jong work, and hung suen is also different.You just have to see and compare their stances and motions.

CMAs love their stories- but wong wa bo, and leung ye tai were real boat people and leung jan was a real person and Ip man made the greatest contribution in wing chun devlopment. Those who studied extensively with him passed on the fundamentals well. Part time folks and auditors
put in things on their own to fill gaps..

Actually wing chun remains a fairly rare system despite the spreading, the marketing and the corruptions resulting from limited knowledge.

joy chaudhuri.

[LSWCTN1]

i think that Wing Chun and Hoffman's weng chun may well be different, but share commonalities. weng chun claims descent from Fung Sui Ching, while Yuen Kay Sans written material says that Fung Sui Ching taught the same wIng chun art as Fok Bo Chuen...

Chu Chong Man, the 'poster boy' for wEng chun, has a lineage interspersed with Leung Jan and Fung Sui Ching teachings. Andreas Hoffmans main teacher (Cheng Kwong) also studied under Lok Yui of YMWCK. and dragon style. Hoffman taught this too, before wEng chun. Maybe, to judge wEng chun, the lineage of Michael Tang (Chun Pak) and others should be looked at in more detail.

there are clips on youtube of Hoffman practising wEng chun under Wai Yan's guidance, whilst stood in YJKYM. which (correct me if i'm wrong) is only used in wIng chun.

Fung Sui Ching was taught by Dai Fa Min Kam, who's lineage Pan Nam also had associations with and was classed as the same art by him.

also, i believe it was Chu Chong Man who introduced the Fa Kuen into wEng Chun as he liked the form. nothing more, nothing less. I'm also pretty sure that the wEng chun character only started to be used in the Dai Duk Lan period, and was a deliberate change.

i must point out that this is all from memory, so it is more than possible to be wrong - i am open to correction!

[fivestar]

I´m a wing tsun teacher and I started learning weng chun for further research. In my own experience they are same style. I find it very interesting that we can find the same moves in Siu Nim Tau as in weng chun´s Saam Pai Fat or Sap Yat Kuen.

I visit a seminar with Michael Tang. It was a seminar in Germany organized by Andreas Hoffmann. I liked his Weng Chun forms but his chisao and applications were not professional. He told us that he use the knowledge of his Tai Chi Chuan to improve his weng chun forms. At the seminar I asked Michael Tang if he think that Wing Tsun and Weng Chun were the same style. He told me yes he think so, but today they are different.

Ignatius Siu´s Fa kuen is interesting and hopefully Ignatius Siu will post more videos about his weng chun. I´m wondering which kind of weng chun principles you have to follow with the Fa Kuen. Maybe a student of Ignatius Siu can explain more.

The fighting skill and body work of Andreas Hoffmann is incredible. I think his main teacher was Wai Yan and he demonstrated the weng chun sap yatkuen of Pak Chung in YJKYM, as I know Wai Yan´s weng chun has no YJKYM.