Taoist titles

[gummi]

What is the origin of Taoist titles added on? Is there a system?
For example, Tao Sifu. This is being used as a higher rank to Sifu. What's the significance of "Tao"?

This particular school uses Sifu to designate rank and credential. There are teachers that are not "Sifu" even when they are exclusively responsible for leadership of a class. Junior teachers are called "Dao Ma" or "Tao Ma".
What's the origin and meaning? I couldn't find accurate quicky Chinese translations on-line.

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere...don't yell at me.
I did do a search and found a couple things, but not my specific thought. I read through another thread that talked about what the word means in Mandarin and a few of the differences in how it's applied.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Tao typically translates to 'path' or 'way'....so Tao Sifu would be a teacher of the way or the path...its kind of a more respectable or colorful title.

In Choy Lee Fut 'Ma' was a term used for horse stances...I believe 'Ma' is horse in Mandarin so a Tao Ma, in this case would probably be a guide or bearer to the path...someone who bears the burden. I'm strictly speculating...

[uki]

creating titles creates a more competitive market from which people can choose out of an abundance of useless labels.

[gummi]

Well, the person who uses it is an ordained Taoist priest, so one assumes good healthy intentions and that there is no agenda there.

I just simply want to know why "Tao Sifu" is higher up on the food chain than a Sifu, and what "Tao Ma" is.

[uki]

Well, the person who uses it is an ordained Taoist priest,

what is a taoist priest?

so one assumes good healthy intentions

according to toltec wisdom, one of the four truths is, "do not make assumptions."

and that there is no agenda there.

even having "no agenda" is an agenda.

[David Jamieson]

what is a taoist priest?
*snip*

this is a taoist priest

[David Jamieson]

this is a taoist priest

as an aside, it's worth considering how is it that someone couldn't know that there are taoist priests but yet claim access to knowledge from a people who no longer are extant except for generations removed descendants who themselves know little if anything of their past?

But wait, maybe better to not answer that.

May I suggest that people somewhat educate themselves on topics before attempting to speak to them as opposed to just dumping egrigious answers to legitimate queries everywhere without any foundation for doing so.

It makes the paths a little clearer for people who want to walk down them when they aren't avoiding foul droppings all along the way.

Not everything is doctrineless and whether you like it or not, a history exists outside of ones scope of understanding that is rich and deep and extends back for more than 1000 years. It takes a few people quite often to provide a clear response.

[uki]

as an aside, it's worth considering how is it that someone couldn't know that there are taoist priests but yet claim access to knowledge from a people who no longer are extant except for generations removed descendants who themselves know little if anything of their past?

LOL... i wasn't fishing for you...

May I suggest that people somewhat educate themselves on topics before attempting to speak to them as opposed to just dumping egrigious answers to legitimate queries everywhere without any foundation for doing so.

i most certainly agree with you here.

It makes the paths a little clearer for people who want to walk down them when they aren't avoiding foul droppings all along the way.

but poop on the path makes one pay more attention to where they are stepping... no one likes wiping poo off their shoe.

Not everything is doctrineless and whether you like it or not, a history exists outside of ones scope of understanding that is rich and deep and extends back for more than 1000 years.

not all that is written and claimed as history is actual history...

It takes a few people quite often to provide a clear response.

and it only takes one person to muddy up the water.

[David Jamieson]

*sighs*

whatever.

Here is the advice that is not advice.

Don't take or seek advice here. It is usually not forthcoming and for the most part, your time is wasted and you will not know whether you have gained something of value or something that will define you as ignorant for accepting it as a truth.

[GeneChing]

You may be mishearing it. What dialect is this in? Does it sound more like 'Sea-Fu' or "Shir-fu"?

I'm moving this to the internal forum since there's probably more Daoists hanging out there.

[uki]

I'm moving this to the internal forum since there's probably more Daoists hanging out there.

what's a daoist??

[gummi]

I can't get Chinese characters. I have no idea what they are. The context is "Northern Shaolin" kung fu. This school doesn't teach in Chinese at all. It's only in English, verbal and written.
It's being pronounced "shay-foo"; others say "shif-foo".
"Tao Ma" is pronounced "dah-ma" (like in 'Dharma')

It's denotes rank - a 'Tao Sifu' is higher up the food chain than a 'Sifu'. A 'Tao Ma' is under a Sifu.

There are many martial arts schools that use the convention of addressing one's instructor as 'Sifu'. It's a common form of address, generally applied as 'teacher'.

What I'm unfamiliar with is:
1. Using 'Sifu' only if the person has earned some kind of formal credential and not as a general address of respect for a teacher.
2. Use of the added ranks, 'Tao Sifu' and 'Tao Ma'.
3. To add to the fun, there's an additional rank - 'Fujai'.

I was hoping that someone here would be familiar with this system and know where it came from. Or even a Taoist expert that could explain why the word 'Tao' is added to Sifu.

Hebrew Hammer, thanks for that thought. I was thinking along the same lines.

[Scott R. Brown]

Here's a question,....

If all the teachings are in English, why are the titles Chinese?

It seems it would be less confusing to just use English titles.

Also....who decided this guy is a Taoist priest? What organization does he belong to and what is their lineage? Or did he just designate himself a Taoist Priest? After all, I have acquaintances that designated a "certain" person their GRANDMASTER, and just by some "magical coincidence", their GRANDMASTER bestowed the tile of MASTER on them!!!!!

See how easy that works....

cuz if we are just designating ourselves titles I will hence for be called,

"HIS MOST HIGHEST INTER-DIMENSIONALLY GALACTICISTIC GRANDEST MAGISTERIAL MASTER OF ALL MASTERS! (...except for my wife!)

[uki]

a daoist that can be named is not the true taoist.

[taai gihk yahn]

"HIS MOST HIGHEST INTER-DIMENSIONALLY GALACTICISTIC GRANDEST MAGISTERIAL MASTER OF ALL MASTERS! (...except for my wife!)

or HMHIDGGMMOAM (efmw) for short...