Learning without a Master

[Shaolinstudent]

Do any of you believe that it is possible to learn a form without a master. Not just the movements, but also the applications, and the purpose behind them?

[David Jamieson]

Do any of you believe that it is possible to learn a form without a master. Not just the movements, but also the applications, and the purpose behind them?

That would be creating a form. You would learn it through application.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Yes. If the source of instructions is clear and precise, well discussed and explained, and if you have the ability to concentrate and learn, yes, you can learn most anything. Given time, you can learn concepts and techniques simply through doing them over and over.

[Shaolinstudent]

Yes. If the source of instructions is clear and precise, well discussed and explained, and if you have the ability to concentrate and learn, yes, you can learn most anything. Given time, you can learn concepts and techniques simply through doing them over and over.

So you agree, but also believe a Master is still important though?

[MasterKiller]

What can be done and what should be done are two different matters, entirely.

[nospam]

Sure one can learn a form to a certain degree on their own, just like one can learn to do the Hokey Pokey on their own. And that's what it's all about.

nospam

[Shaolin]

Depends on how high of a level of student we're talking about here.

Beginner/intermediate; no

Master level; yes

[Hebrew Hammer]

What have you got to lose? The upside you are getting some physically activity, doing some training, save a few bucks on gas and training fees, possibly saving yourself from a bad martial arts instructor...on the down side you develop horrible habits, improper techniques, a false sense of accomplishment, miss out on some comradely and potentially the best martial instruction you could ever receive. It might lead to an over estimation of your abilities.

The only problem with training yourself is you will never really know how good you are or how good you could be.

[uki]

observing nature is the best teacher... nature has no bias, no flaws, no ego - nature is true and real. nature is best... this is why the best masters learned from observing nature.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You need a teacher to TEACH you, but you can LEARN without one.
A teacher is a must in the development stages of any and every MA, but they can actually hinder development in some as time goes by, many students use their teachers as a crutch and don't put enough responsibility on themselves for the development of THEIR MA.

[GeneChing]

They were all fairly exceptional students. I could never do it. I tried a few times, but I was too lazy. Frankly, I've always had the luxury of access to good instruction being in the S.F. Bay Area, so there was never a need to learn a form so.

On the converse, I've known students that had a good teacher and never got the form at all, never mind the applications. It's all about aptitude and determination.

[sanjuro_ronin]

They were all fairly exceptional students. I could never do it. I tried a few times, but I was too lazy. Frankly, I've always had the luxury of access to good instruction being in the S.F. Bay Area, so there was never a need to learn a form so.

On the converse, I've known students that had a good teacher and never got the form at all, never mind the applications. It's all about aptitude and determination.

GM Funk has chi blasted the correct.
I would add that a nice solid core in a "related" MA certainly helps.

[Shaolinstudent]

So would any of you actually try learning a Shaolin form by yourself or try an easier style, like say Wing Chun? This style is very straight forward and the applications to the forms are easy to learn even without a master. What would you do? Stick with Shaolin or try Wing Chun?

[Lee Chiang Po]

Not everyone has the capacity to learn well. It might take longer to grasp things. On the other hand, not everyone can teach properly. You have to start at the beginning and work slowly toward the end. You can not skip around and you certainly can not start certain things before you are ready.
If you have the concentration and ability to understand and to follow instructions, you can indeed learn most anything. You can buy a bunch of books and the first thing you will see is the instructions of doing forms or such. Do your hand or foot this way, make this motion or that. But what is lacking is why you are doing this motion and what is the purpose. This is poor teaching. If one can explain in absolute full detail why each move is applied, then you can more fully understand why you do it a particular way. I find that way too often people are making interpretations that make absolutely no sense at all. This is probably because they are learning this from a book that is poorly written. Nothing should be left open to interpretation. Nothing. If you can get someone else to work with you in learning, working together you can grasp detail more clearly, and you can learn the feel of proper application. There seems to be lots of good Utube instruction if you have a problem with understand stuff in a book. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. And it is free. And if it is good instruction, it is just like standing there facing a master teacher.
Speaking of which, most people do not have close access of the master. If there are lots of students, they are going to be at different levels of training. They require teaching at these different levels, so the master usually puts his advanced students to task of teaching the newer students. Poor idea at best because these guys just might not be as good at teaching as they need to be. This has nothing to do with their skills. It has to do with their ability to teach properly. I suspect that most do more showing off than teaching.

[tattooedmonk]

So would any of you actually try learning a Shaolin form by yourself or try an easier style, like say Wing Chun? This style is very straight forward and the applications to the forms are easy to learn even without a master. What would you do? Stick with Shaolin or try Wing Chun?

Do you have any experience at all???With all the time you have spent online you could have already learned part of a form Nike says ...Just Do It!