Luohan Quan

[RenDaHai]

which set are we talking about now?

[Sal Canzonieri]

which set are we talking about now?

Shaolin Luohan Shi Ba Shou Yi Lu (as shown in Shaolin Encyclopedia and Shi Deyang does in one of his videos)

[LFJ]

another note on the luohanquan 7lu vs dameihuaquan...

also on that performance vcd are three roads of xiaotongbiquan (which i dont recognize, do you?), that is, the first and the third. but for the erlu they used the third road of dahongquan, but starting from gongbu dingzhou. not even from the beginning. and they even used the very same footage that was used for that set on the same vcd.

so i really think it is an editing mistake. like all the forms being mislabeled on the performance vcd by shi deyang. everywhere else that set is dameihuaquan, whether performed by other people, or covered in the shaolin encyc..

all that means is that we havent seen the actual 7th road of those luohanquan sets.

the only way to verify is if someone has seen the instructional vcd on the individual luohanquan sets.
http://www.cmaod.com/Shaolin15.html

well, he is doing the hubaotou posture on the cover. i wonder what they would say about it during the introduction if in fact it is the dameihuaquan set being taught as 7lu luohanquan.

[Sal Canzonieri]

another note on the luohanquan 7lu vs dameihuaquan...

also on that performance vcd are three roads of xiaotongbiquan (which i dont recognize, do you?), that is, the first and the third. but for the erlu they used the third road of dahongquan, but starting from gongbu dingzhou. not even from the beginning. and they even used the very same footage that was used for that set on the same vcd.

so i really think it is an editing mistake. like all the forms being mislabeled on the performance vcd by shi deyang. everywhere else that set is dameihuaquan, whether performed by other people, or covered in the shaolin encyc..

all that means is that we havent seen the actual 7th road of those luohanquan sets.

the only way to verify is if someone has seen the instructional vcd on the individual luohanquan sets.
http://www.cmaod.com/Shaolin15.html

well, he is doing the hubaotou posture on the cover. i wonder what they would say about it during the introduction if in fact it is the dameihuaquan set being taught as 7lu luohanquan.

I will copy, convert and get it on Youtube so you can look and tell us. Soon as I can get the chance.

Strange, strange, strange.

Liu Zhenhai's Shaolin Da Lu book has really full nice versions of all the Tongbi Quan sets. In this book, Yi Lu Tongbi Quan is all three sets of Xiao and in this book, Er Lu Tongbei is the Da set.

[LFJ]

how about yongxin's book? there is a meihuaquan one.

[Sal Canzonieri]

how about yongxin's book? there is a meihuaquan one.

It is named Mei Hua Quan, and it is a very accurate version of the Da Mei Hua Quan set. It follows the Shaolin encyc. version, but it has transition moves not seen in the drawings.
It's a great book.

I guess I can use it to compare to Luohan 7th Lu, then?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Comparing Shi Yongxin's Da MeiHua Quan book vs other books:

- Totally identical to Liu Zhenhai's version in his Shaolin Da Lu book!

- Pretty much same as Shaolin Encyc, other than facing left or right issues.

- The Tagou books Mei Hua Quan is a very different version of the Da MeiHua Quan set. It kinda pretty much follows the basic order of movements, but it sure is not like the version that is in common to the other 3 books. This version has lots of different moves, more 'wushu-fied if that is possible, and seems simplified and jumbled up in comparison. its was rough and confusing trying to follow along and find my place along the Da Meihua Quan sequence of movements. Sometimes it stayed on track and other times it went far astray.

So, there you go.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I watched the disc with Liu Zhenhai's Luohan 7th Lu and indeed that set shown is the same as the Da Meihua Quan set, most of it anyways, it ends a lot earlier.

Well, this will be baffling until someone can talk to someone from there about it.

[Sal Canzonieri]

yi lu = the Lao Luohan that Shi Deyang does (aka 3 section Luohan, Xiao Luohan, etc.)

er lu = ?

san lu = first section of Shi Degen's Luohan Quan Yi Lu set

si lu = ?

wu lu = ?

liu lu = looks like Shaolin San Lu Luohan Quan?

Qi lu = Da Mei Hua Quan

Maybe you guys can figure them out, once I get the chance I will post them on YouTube.

[LFJ]

Comparing Shi Yongxin's Da MeiHua Quan book vs other books:

- Totally identical to Liu Zhenhai's version in his Shaolin Da Lu book!

you mean his book shows dameihuaquan as "dameihuaquan", while the video shows dameihuaquan as "luohanquan" 7lu?

or is it again mixed up? at least that would be consistent. and there must be a reason for that.

[Sal Canzonieri]

you mean his book shows dameihuaquan as "dameihuaquan", while the video shows dameihuaquan as "luohanquan" 7lu?

or is it again mixed up? at least that would be consistent. and there must be a reason for that.

Yes, his book shows the routine as simple Mei Hua Quan.
Not as Luohan Quan. His book has two routines under Luohan: a 18 Hands set (weirdest thing I have ever seen) and the elusive Da Luohan Quan (containing the missing ending section that the Tagou books don't have).

His books are the most accurate and best versions of most Shaolin sets.

The videos are all marked and discombobulated in some way or another.
I think the editors got all mixed up.

What's on his Mei Hua Quan vcd? I didn't have that one and just ordered it to look.
It would be weird if it is Da Mei Hua Quan as well!
I hope it is Xiao Mei Hua, or a different Mei Hua Quan, long as it isn't the Da set again.

[LFJ]

i meant liu zhenhai's book. it shows dameihuaquan as "dameihuaquan"?

then that is obviously in conflict with his vcd which shows the set as "luohanquan 7lu", right?

if so, then it was apparently just used as a luohan set to throw people off.

i dont have the individual vcds, just the performance vcd which has them all. it includes the xiaomeihuaquan set, almost exactly like that one i posted with the guy in yellow.
http://www.56.com/u71/v_MTQ3MTkwMjg.html

the vcd one is performed by shi xingsen who narrates the performance vcd, and also does it on the individual vcd.

but both that vcd and the other video i posted do it differently than the shaolin encyc. that book has a ditang move in it, which i have also seen in a chinese magazine done that way.

interestingly, these two unrelated videos replace the ditang move with the exact same technique. the little hop behind move done at :20 into the above video.

in the encyc. it is the ditang move done by shi guosong at :30 into the ditang meihuaquan set here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPw5BW7z_uY

the rest of the set in the encyc. doesnt really follow either of the two videos for xiaomeihuaquan though. just the first and last section kinda.

[LFJ]

compare the two xiaomeihuaquan performances. they are practically identical:
http://www.56.com/u71/v_MTQ3MTkwMjg.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pHHs8-qquk

[Sal Canzonieri]

i meant liu zhenhai's book. it shows dameihuaquan as "dameihuaquan"?

then that is obviously in conflict with his vcd which shows the set as "luohanquan 7lu", right?

if so, then it was apparently just used as a luohan set to throw people off.

i dont have the individual vcds, just the performance vcd which has them all. it includes the xiaomeihuaquan set, almost exactly like that one i posted with the guy in yellow.
http://www.56.com/u71/v_MTQ3MTkwMjg.html

the vcd one is performed by shi xingsen who narrates the performance vcd, and also does it on the individual vcd.

but both that vcd and the other video i posted do it differently than the shaolin encyc. that book has a ditang move in it, which i have also seen in a chinese magazine done that way.

interestingly, these two unrelated videos replace the ditang move with the exact same technique. the little hop behind move done at :20 into the above video.

in the encyc. it is the ditang move done by shi guosong at :30 into the ditang meihuaquan set here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPw5BW7z_uY

the rest of the set in the encyc. doesnt really follow either of the two videos for xiaomeihuaquan though. just the first and last section kinda.

I have the feeling that the editors of the videos made it into a Luohan Quan set.
It just seems like a mistake. He's got a Xiao Meihua Quan vcd and Xiao and Da of all the other sets he does.

Da Meihua videos are everywhere.
Xiao no, only those two. I wonder why?

Liu Zhenhai's book shows the Da Meihua set, but names it just "Meihua Quan".
I just ordered the one I was missing, his Xiao Meihua, I have almost all of his other ones individually (except a lot of the weapons ones, didn't get them yet).

The Tagou book only has Da Meihua, not a Xiao, which is strange since it has all the Xiao and Da for all their other sets.

i guess it is mostly known as Shaolin Ditang Meihuan Quan?
I thought I saw it said that way in other books as well.

By the way, a Ditang Meihuan Quan is popular in Shandong province, and they originally got it from Shaolin, according to their history.

[LFJ]

i guess it is mostly known as Shaolin Ditang Meihuan Quan?
I thought I saw it said that way in other books as well.

well, the xiaomeihuaquan in the shaolin encyc. has just one ditang technique in it (not counting sweeps). not so much like the ditang meihuaquan shi guosong demonstrates.

however, if you watch and compare these two, they follow the exact same sequence up to that first ditang move.

compare these two xiaomeihuaquan videos with the ditang meihuaquan video. watch the sequence of the two xiao videos up to the hop into chabu with crane's beak (yellow clothes) or low hammer strike (shi xingsen). this is where the move comes in that shi guosong does, actually lying on the ground and stomping over his own leg. the shaolin encyc. shows this move actually being in the xiaomeihuaquan set too, but the rest is different.

from the beginning to :49 in shi xingsen's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pHHs8-qquk

from the beginning to :20 in the yellow suit video:
http://www.56.com/u71/v_MTQ3MTkwMjg.html

from the beginning to :31 in shi guosong's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPw5BW7z_uY

examine closely. these sequences are the same. only shi guosong goes in a different direction and has a couple extra moves, but follows the same sequence nonetheless.

the xiaomeihuaquan in the encyc. follows this too, but all three go astray after that technique.