talking about hypocracy in kung fu: shaolin monks in america banging sexy white women

[Sal Canzonieri]

1. Generally speaking, the MMA guys will always come out ahead
2. Generally speaking, the CMA guys will always be downed by everybody else
3. The few like Sal are an exception and not the rule.

Well I am certainly glad to give seminars and lessons anytime, I already go to Spain once a year doing so, on effectively and efficiently doing CMA so that it works.

Agree that most of the time CMA people stink at it. I know exactly why and can show people why and how to fix it. By fix it, I mean doing things the way they were originally intended so that they work always.

Try it, you'll like it!
CMA that really works is a beautiful think to behold!

[Sal Canzonieri]

well the catholic church already went through this and hence we have the protestant church.

And, the catholic church goes through this still today, hence they have priests that break their vows.

[uki]

well the catholic church already went through this and hence we have the protestant church.

And, the catholic church goes through this still today, hence they have priests that break their vows.

this is fundamentally because these systems of control have outlived their intended purpose... it's like attempting to dam a tsunami. rules, regulations, and vows are self-imposed restrictions on ones spiritual evolution... these traditions and rituals perpetuated thru-out the ages as a mechanism of controlling mass consciousness are at and end. religions and systems of control are based on negative energy and fear... transcending fear and ignorance entails becoming enlightened - to be filled with light... light = information. the reason vows and restrictions are set in place is to hinder ones own spiritual advancement... planting the seeds of guilt, consequence, and punishment.

[Royal Dragon]

It's funny to see traditional kung fu guys continue to put down MMA and constantly chest puff about how much better their training and style are, and make statements such as "it's just old arts mixed together". Ironically enough, the same can be said for most traditional Kung Fu styles. Yet that is ok, because, you know, it's Kung Fu. Why is it that Kung Fu stylists are so threatened by MMA? Please tell me, I would love to know.

Reply]
See, here is the thing, I DON'T feel threatened by MMA. My point, is that despite all of the MMA grandstanding, and constant claims of superiority, ultimately, they are not any better than good Kung Fu players with the same hours of training.

When I met with Sal, he was easily able to throw me around at will. I have however crossed hands with MMA players (there are several in the Silat group I work with)and they could not. Sure they could get me sometimes, but I have the upper hand just as much, and generally exert less effort.

They sure don't hit harder, or throw better. The only area I saw anything better, was in the ground grappling...but then I have almost zero experience with that. Still, I have prevented them from succeeding on me, and infact once made one guy tap with a pressure point application ON THE GROUND.

The reality of the situation is that they are there in the group BECAUSE of my teacher's exempletory skills in CMA and Silat. The ones who have adopted his methods, are down right scary fighters now.

So, when MMA people stop boasting unbeatable superhuman superiority, I will stop calling them on the BS. It's all about how you train, and how much effort you put in to getting good at your art.

[GeneChing]

Practicing authentic Zen, now that's hard. Like uki pointed out above, to a shallow mind (and I'm not pointing fingers, uki ) Zen is filled with paradox. We make a study of it. Koan Zen is all about paradox and metaphor. And it's really hard because your logical mind will try to override it with a simple and incorrect response. Letting go of being sexual, being carnivorous and abusing intoxicants comes quite naturally when you progress down the path of Zen. At a certain point, you realize how distracting they can be, how they can divert you from the practice.

Honestly, despite the fact that wuseng are not required to take all of the full monastic vows, it's something that they should aspire to if they claim to be authentic Zennists. The same goes for all Zennsts, frankly. You've got to remember that Buddhism was not originally a religion for the masses. It was a code for monastic ascetics. And Zen is a streamlined version of Buddhism. If you are truly practicing Zen *and* representing yourself as a Shaolin disciple, why wouldn't you want to work on following all the precepts.

That being said (and getting back to bawang's original post) if a monk ran away from the temple to bang "up a bald lesbian" (and who knows wtf bawang pulled that rumor out) that says nothing against the institution. Shaolin is hard and many fail. If someone ran away, that's to be expected. As for the bald lesbian, wtf bawang wtf? As for the other that married, Lipeng has been addressed. He officially disrobed. And as I said before, there's no dishonor in disrobing. The dishonor only lies in remaining a man of the cloth when the lifestyle has changed to a point that he should really disrobe.

[David Jamieson]

yes, i'd like to know more of the bald lesbian.

that is too weird to pass up! lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

First of all, let me just say how hard it is to find a G RATED pic of a bald lesbian !!!

[David Jamieson]

First of all, let me just say how hard it is to find a G RATED pic of a bald lesbian !!!

Keep working on it, we know you can't fail us in these types of endeavours.

;D

this one is G, although, i like it a litle more sr style in bareness...meh

[Iron_Eagle_76]

See, here is the thing, I DON'T feel threatened by MMA. My point, is that despite all of the MMA grandstanding, and constant claims of superiority, ultimately, they are not any better than good Kung Fu players with the same hours of training.

It depends on the level and method of training a Kung Fu player has, and what your definition of good is. A person's natural athletic ability and size are often more indicitive of their skills than their style, but training methods are the most important aspect.

They sure don't hit harder, or throw better. The only area I saw anything better, was in the ground grappling...but then I have almost zero experience with that. Still, I have prevented them from succeeding on me, and infact once made one guy tap with a pressure point application ON THE GROUND.

Training methods are more important than style, I repeat, training methods are more important than style. Also, unless the guy you tapped was Rickson Gracie, tapping one person, one time is not a whole lot to brag about.

So, when MMA people stop boasting unbeatable superhuman superiority, I will stop calling them on the BS. It's all about how you train, and how much effort you put in to getting good at your art.

I completely agree with your last statement, but the problem is I generally do not see MMA players boasting superhuman superiority, quite the opposite actually. Most are realistic and know thier skills and limitations because they have tested them in the cage, ring, and on the mats. Many Kung Fu players do this as well, through San Shou, Shuai Jiao, and MMA. The problem is with Kung Fu players who have not ever tested what they have learned and preach the gospel of how deadly they are.

If you and your instructor are that good, good for you. But as I said, seldom do I hear MMA peeps talking superhuman BS. I wish I could say the same for Kung Fu, but often that is not the case. Anyway, I am hoping that more Kung Fu makes it into the mainstream of combat sports. I truly believe there are treasures found within CMA that can help continue the progression of martial arts, or Kung Fu, or MMA, or whatever they call it these days.

[Royal Dragon]

seldom do I hear MMA peeps talking superhuman BS. I wish I could say the same for Kung Fu, but often that is not the case.

Reply]
That is a load too. MMA people, thier fans,and their supporters are constantly online spouting the supposed superiority of MMA, and in the same breath downing traditional arts, especially Kung Fu. THAT is why you see a back lash from traditional people. You trash Kung Fu, hold yourself up as better, then never show anything that is better. You MMA riders are generating the backlash yourselves.

[sanjuro_ronin]

seldom do I hear MMA peeps talking superhuman BS. I wish I could say the same for Kung Fu, but often that is not the case.

Reply]
That is a load too. MMA people, thier fans,and their supporters are constantly online spouting the supposed superiority of MMA, and in the same breath downing traditional arts, especially Kung Fu. THAT is why you see a back lash from traditional people. You trash Kung Fu, hold yourself up as better, then never show anything that is better. You MMA riders are generating the backlash yourselves.

Dude, MMA fans are, typically, a bunch of idiots with the combined IQ of a turnip.
Just like any other rabid sport fan that is living out their faded dreams of "uber awesomeness" through the accomplishments of others.
Just like TMA guys nutriding the accomplishments of some ancient MA that died 200 years ago.

[richard sloan]

but we also know how buddhism developed.

I always say the dharma is self evidentiary in nature. eventually something's nature, the manner of it's arising, the causes and conditions, become clear- that is one of the major points of the practice- to achieve that state.

finding its already there is a process.

Gene you bring up Su Yun and that is one of my favorite examples when this topic comes up, because for the life of me I can not imagine Gotama putting away his family and the evidence is he did not.

Likewise there is enough evidence that Su Yun, and his kid who also became a monk, did not cause the altars to topple or sacred sutras to burn at his touch. many zen temples in Japan function just fine with abbots who have families.

now people can speak to tradition- that is something that evolves. people can speak to other examples of buddhist monastics- and there I would say the bigger problem is martial arts. yet shaolin resolve THAT particular 'paradox' to successful conclusion rather handily.

all I'm really saying, is it depends. and that things change. we may be uncomfortable with change, and in fact maybe even members of the same sect might fight against it, but we already know that things change. just look at recent shaolin history and several of you guys know what I am talking about.

As fightin Joe Campbell once said, and I paraphrase: People are eating the picture of a steak thinking it is the steak.

He was of course, discussing literal fundamentalism against metaphoric intuitive understanding of the archetypal issues with which we use things like buddhism or christianity to get a grip on.

One thing is for sure, you have to live it. If anything can be mindfully done, then anything can be distractive. That is why the precepts were crafted for individuals, and that is why so many traditions rely on the ascetic motivator or spark.

Was not the Buddha uncomfortable applying them to the whole community...are we not relying on mostly oral traditions as remembered by fellow humans.

It's not like Buddha or God or whatever planted a giant flat screen in the desert with a constant looping video with the instructions of living.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

That is a load too. MMA people, thier fans,and their supporters are constantly online spouting the supposed superiority of MMA, and in the same breath downing traditional arts, especially Kung Fu. THAT is why you see a back lash from traditional people

I have a great big tissue with your name on it.

You trash Kung Fu, hold yourself up as better, then never show anything that is better. You MMA riders are generating the backlash yourselves.

Yeah, because all the Kung Fu stylists winning in combat sports today is astounding

Dude, you don't like MMA. I don't care. I do like traditional Kung Fu and believe there are many useful tools in CMA, but believe in cross training in other areas where Kung Fu is weak. You can call that MMA, cross training, ragin in the cage, or whatever other generic label you can use to diminish this training method. But the true irony is trying to have a conversation with an idiot like yourself who can't take their blinders off and see another point of view, then likes to accuse others of spouting garbage and putting another art down. Oh, the irony.

[Royal Dragon]

I have a great big tissue with your name on it.



Yeah, because all the Kung Fu stylists winning in combat sports today is astounding

Dude, you don't like MMA. I don't care. I do like traditional Kung Fu and believe there are many useful tools in CMA, but believe in cross training in other areas where Kung Fu is weak. You can call that MMA, cross training, ragin in the cage, or whatever other generic label you can use to diminish this training method. But the true irony is trying to have a conversation with an idiot like yourself who can't take their blinders off and see another point of view, then likes to accuse others of spouting garbage and putting another art down. Oh, the irony.

Reply]
I never actually put down MMA, reread.

What i said, is it is not the superhuman uber art it is made out to be, and it is certianly not superior to Kung Fu, no matter how much those like you profess it to be.

[Sal Canzonieri]

this is fundamentally because these systems of control have outlived their intended purpose... it's like attempting to dam a tsunami. rules, regulations, and vows are self-imposed restrictions on ones spiritual evolution... these traditions and rituals perpetuated thru-out the ages as a mechanism of controlling mass consciousness are at and end. religions and systems of control are based on negative energy and fear... transcending fear and ignorance entails becoming enlightened - to be filled with light... light = information. the reason vows and restrictions are set in place is to hinder ones own spiritual advancement... planting the seeds of guilt, consequence, and punishment.

Agreed, for sure.

Why do you think that Zen / Chan Buddhism (which has incorporated much from Taoism over time) says "If you see the Buddha in the road, kill him", yes?