Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[BM2]

The large guy was a visiting Judo player, according to Earp. He was just there for a couple of months.

Have you ever considered that the gi story is bullsh1t? That maybe they trained CMA in Bandung the same way everyone else trains..in t-shirts and pants?


People with more invested in the style than you have privately told me they believe it is. Maybe. Maybe not.

But wouldn't it be cool if it is?

I think it is more time frame. I recall GMST talking about using their sash tied to their feet to do upside down situps.
Master Ie is never in a gi but I have seen Master Hiang in a gi in a painting with Master Ie . What time frame was the trouble in Indonesia? Late 50s and early 60s? I think that would be the time frame that they would have started using them. But just guessing.
Master Sin said that Master Ie was of slight built.
That one photo looks like Master Hiang.

[BM2]

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;968181]I dunno, this Tan Tui looks pretty good to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt83nvRwq-4



Those cricular head blocks look like the way I learned them in 1981 from an instructor who learned from M. Hiang. Not the linear ones I learned later. At the time it was said that it was M. Hiang's version of it because of his bird background.

[Teufel Hunden]

Rest assured everyone, I didn't register here just for this. But, I do have some knowledge of the Soards and the recent "drama" for lack of a better term, and disagreed with a couple points in this otherwise excellent post.

That doesn't mean D. Soard is done for, (nor Tiger Woods). But you people condemn Mr. Soard as though you've never made mistakes.
Just as you condemn EML or GMSKT for your perception of their shortcomings.
Well I hope the dust in their eyes looks good through the plank in yours.
After you've grown into positions of ANY remark whatsoever, I'd like to see if your skeletons turn out any brighter than anyone elses.

The issue I take with this, is it's really easy to excuse someone, or to tell someone else they can't comment on anything because "everyone makes mistakes." Sure, we're all human, and sure, sometimes we all have those "oops" moments, and sometimes those moments cost us big in the long run. But sometimes it's bigger than a mistake. Sometimes it's not just, "oops... that's gonna cost me..." Sometimes it's a calculated conscious decision about which the decision maker should be beyond just knowing better (I won't comment about SKT or EML, just Soard specifically). Soard was in his position for a great many years. He had built his "empire," as you so put it, for a good portion of his life, and so being the kind of person who should be standing at the top should have come naturally to him right? It didn't. He had inappropriate sexual contact (I won't even get in to whether it was consentual or not, he claimed it was, both women claimed it wasn't, either way, it was completely inappropriate), with more than one woman. This is more than just a "mistake" on his part, because he's "human."

There comes a point in every man's "empire" in which he's no longer allowed to make these kinds of "mistakes" and just continue on as normal afterward. A good example of this is a US Marine who was under my charge. In 2006, I was a Platoon Sergeant, and we were preparing for a deployment to Iraq. Because part of our mission was to handle detainees (not prisoners, people arrested for any number of reasons, but for no longer than 14 days), we had several female Marines attached to our company in case we had female detainees come in. One of my Squad leaders (a Sergeant), developed a secret interest in one of the women Marines (a Private First Class), and eventually had sex with her one evening, in clear defiance of several standing orders from the Commanding Officer, and even a couple from myself.

The solution to this, is Non Judicial Punishment for all parties involved. The Platoon Commander and I sought to punish not only those involved, but parties that knew about it as well. In the end, the Commanding Officer went with our recommendations, and 4 people lost rank and pay over the ordeal. But, the Sgt who slept with the Private got it the worst. He had been selected for promotion to Staff Sergeant. This means he hadn't pinned on the rank yet, and was still a Sgt until a slot opened up for him (it could be months away). But, he had reached the maximum allowable service time for a Sgt, so he needed to get promoted or get out of the Marine Corps. Well, with him being busted down to Corporal, this meant he was no longer going to make SSgt in time, and thus, would be forced out of the Marines. It ruined his career, which, up to that point, was a good one.

A couple of my Marines approached me and (respectfully), asked why this one thing should ruin the Sgt's career. "He just made a mistake... he's been a great Sgt up to this point!" To which my reply was, "He was such a good Sgt, he should have known better than this." And I think that's something people tend to gloss over while excusing someone from criticism with the old, "Oh yeah like you people are so perfect! what kinds of skeletons are in your closet?!?!" routine. That Marine had served long enough to know what happens when you disobey numerous standing orders to have an illegal one night stand with a Marine in your same unit. On that same token, Soard had been a pillar of the SD community for how long? He had been a teacher for how long? He had been MARRIED for how long? After all that experience, after all those years of marriage, after having taught so many students, he decided it would be a good idea to have inappropriate contact with not one, but TWO female students (he only had to plead guilty to one count of harassment though). He even admitted he knew it was wrong. This isn't just "one of those things" that you can breeze over with "yeah, well, everyone makes mistakes... like everyone else is so perfect!"

And there is much to learn from David Soard, perhaps more in his downfall than anything.

I actually agree with this. The lesson here should be about the content of one's character, especially when said person is in a position of authority (in more than one way), and the serious consequences of the abuse of that position. But, thanks to people glossing over offenses like this, most lessons that could be learned from other people's mistakes like this are lost, because the offenders themselves suffer no consequences as a result.

You have no true yang as it is... you could never build a small kingdom yet enough have the learning experience those men have through their failures. They've lived in ways you never will, as you are too small to!

So other people are small compared to David Soard because they haven't reached what he has? I'd say David Soard is small compared to ME. Sure, i'm not one of a handful of names listed on a website as an 8th degree elder master, but I've never tried to **** two of my students either. I've never abused my position in a way he did. I've never cheated on my significant other the way he did. I've never banned students from my studio for questioning me after I've "made mistakes," like he did. People who follow good morals throughout their lives are the ones from which to take the lessons. THEY are the bigger people, not the people who once had "empires" and were too stupid keep it from crumbling.

Is Shaolin-Do for real? Like someone said above as real as anything else. If you think your local American dojo is more real than any others, well ~_^
You want real do your own research and do your own thinking.

Now this I agree with completely.

[BoulderDawg]

Hmmmmm........I find it interesting that somebody with 2 posts, who made an intro post that did not mention SD/CSC training, seems to express such a detailed opinion about the Soards and CSC months after all of this happened. Especially someone from Lafayette.

Truth is the storm is pretty much over. The out of town schools got what they wanted and the Soards continue to run their handful of schools. The losers here are the average students who just enjoyed going to the school and working out with their friends.

Why bring this up now? Granted the Soards do not run a good program anymore but there's not a lot anyone can do about it.

[Teufel Hunden]

Hmmmmm........I find it interesting that somebody with 2 posts, who made an intro post that did not mention SD/CSC training, seems to express such a detailed opinion about the Soards and CSC months after all of this happened. Especially someone from Lafayette.

I actually met the Soards several times through non-SD stuff. Of course being a Martial Artist myself, the conversations drift that way, and that's how I know about him. My post also contained no opinions about SD specifically, as beyond what I've read on this forum, I don't know much about the art (or CMA in general, for that matter... Google is how i found this place ), beyond the fact it's "controversial." I only replied to this thread because those particular arguments I quoted drive me nuts, and shouldn't be used to excuse someone of a crime. They were just being used to defend David Soard, so I commented on him specifically, and even gave other examples as to why I feel that way.

Truth is the storm is pretty much over. The out of town schools got what they wanted and the Soards continue to run their handful of schools. The losers here are the average students who just enjoyed going to the school and working out with their friends.

Why bring this up now?

Sure the storm is over, but does that mean I shouldn't add my own opinion in a thread that has over 12,000 already? This thread is a couple of years old now... so I'm not the only one who is "bringing things up."

[Facepalm]

/thread

[goju]

hey facepalm!hows the training going?

[Facepalm]

hey facepalm!hows the training going?

Its going great actually. This trans place is awesome. Its a little expensive but they have top notch facilities, a full gym, and great people.

The people here are in such good shape their athleticism alone makes it great to spar against them.

The main class is more of a MA fitness class, but its some of the most intense workouts Ive had in my life. You do aton of calisthenics while working on your form and power with bag work and pad work using partners.

Then if you stick around and express interest they invite you into the fighters program. These classes are exactly what ive been looking for. You spar like the entire class, full contact, full pads. The last one I was at we started with some defensive drills, then went into 3 two minute rounds of 4 and 4, then 5 two minute rounds of free sparring, then 2 2 min rounds of attacking a sheild your partner held. Then onto pushups and situps, I thought I was gonna die afterwards.

You dont get to learn any of "teh deadly" Muay Thai untill you get a BB after about 4 yrs or so but if you want to learn and train to compete in ring sport Muay Thai I would recommend this place to anyone.

[BoulderDawg]

Seems like this SD thread has kinda died. Probably for the best.

I think the Soard thing has taken the wind out of a lot of sails. I think it's funny when you have people like this guy "Teufel" who signs up, claims he never trained with SD then proceeds to leave a 2-3 page post about the Soards and CDC then never makes another post.

[Teufel Hunden]

Seems like this SD thread has kinda died. Probably for the best.

I think the Soard thing has taken the wind out of a lot of sails. I think it's funny when you have people like this guy "Teufel" who signs up, claims he never trained with SD then proceeds to leave a 2-3 page post about the Soards and CDC then never makes another post.

Actually, if you had read the first response I gave you to this assumption of yours, you wouldn't have made this post.

Since you seem to have difficulty understanding a very simple concept, I'll repost it again, just for you.

I actually met the Soards several times through non-SD stuff. Of course being a Martial Artist myself, the conversations drift that way, and that's how I know about him. My post also contained no opinions about SD specifically, as beyond what I've read on this forum, I don't know much about the art (or CMA in general, for that matter... Google is how i found this place ), beyond the fact it's "controversial." I only replied to this thread because those particular arguments I quoted drive me nuts, and shouldn't be used to excuse someone of a crime. They were just being used to defend David Soard, so I commented on him specifically, and even gave other examples as to why I feel that way.

Is it that unrealistic to think I've met someone LOCAL before? I was born and raised in Lafayette, and have been a Martial Artist my entire life. This may shock you, but people sometimes know other people without having "trained" with them. I'm a contractor myself, but I know people outside of the contracting world, and have friends who don't even know how to swing a hammer. If someone who knows me said something about me would you say, "it's funny you'd have an opinion about him... you claim you're not a contractor.." NO, of course you wouldn't say that, because it's a stupid argument, and you KNOW it's stupid. Why is it so unbelievable to someone like you that I had met the Soards before, and haven't trained in SD? Your line of reasoning is severely lacking in the intelligence department.

Also, I'll point out AGAIN, that my point wasn't only about the Soards specifically. If you had read my posts instead of glossing over them, you'd see I took issue with the DEFENSE of the Soards, by calling other people small, and I even gave a good example as to why I felt that way. IN FACT, you'll notice that my "2-3 page post on the Soards and CSC" specifically had more to do with the way people SHOULD react to someone committing a crime, and NOTHING to do with CSC.

But I'll break it down for you since my first and second posts in here were obviously too much for you to comprehend.

I posted 975 words in that first post. 431 of them were AN EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE NOT ALLOWED TO "MAKE A MISTAKE" AND MY PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT WITH THAT EXAMPLE. So that means in my "2-3 page post about the Soards and CSC," almost 50% of the entire thing wasn't even about them.

Also, lets see how much I talked about CSC, or SD: NONE. So your post is as inaccurate as it is unintelligent.

And all my "knowledge" on David Soard can be found by spending 5 minutes in Google. You can see he's listed on SKT's website as an 8th degree master, you can see how long he's been teaching in Boulder, you can see EVERYTHING I POSTED. But for you tin foil hat folks, it's much easier to believe something else, because you'd much rather it be some other vast conspiracy or something.

As for "never making another post" just how many posts am I supposed to have here? Am I supposed to post ***** up the entire forum or what? As I stated in my very first post here, I'm not interested in CMA, my girlfriend is. I'm doing research for her, any question I might have about CMA in general has already been answered, and I can find those answers by using the search function, something Newbies like myself are encouraged to do. But I guess in your world, not being a post ***** annoying newb, and using the search function properly is a bad thing...

[taai gihk yahn]

Why is it so unbelievable to someone like you that I had met the Soards before, and haven't trained in SD?

because he is an idiot, and if you were a regular visitor here, you'd know that

[goju]

this thread cant be over man we have to do at least 1000 pages!

[taai gihk yahn]

this thread cant be over man we have to do at least 1000 pages!

Sin The is a pre-op tranny; discuss!

(that should be good for a few more...)

[goju]

lol
and whats the deal with the ****in karate uniforms!

also wheres kwai? he was supposed to come down to colorado and kick my ass last month he seems to have magically vanished from the board hmmmmmmm

[OldandUsed]

Ahhhhhhhhh, more drama! I cannot wait for the responses.