2nd Edition: Combat Philosophy of Wong Shun Leung

[Matrix]

With my sarcastic a$$ lol ,,, it would be called this is why you suck ! even your momma don't love U

OK. Now that you have a title, get working on the rest of the book. I'll pay for a copy in Cuban cigars.

[Ernie]

OK. Now that you have a title, get working on the rest of the book. I'll pay for a copy in Cuban cigars.

Hey I never got my cigar lol ....

[sihing]

OK. Now that you have a title, get working on the rest of the book. I'll pay for a copy in Cuban cigars.

Bill,

If you add in a 20+yr old bottle of bourbon or scotch with those Cubans, we may be able to convince him

[sanjuro_ronin]

OK. Now that you have a title, get working on the rest of the book. I'll pay for a copy in Cuban cigars.

I have a nice 10 pack of Monte Cristos I just brought back from Cuba.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ernie and James made an interesting point.
Regular guys learning how to survive and not looking to be professional fighters.

I wonder and I ask this without intent to cause controversey, but do you feel that MMA is more suited for the dedicated athlete than the average joe?

[Frost]

Ernie and James made an interesting point.
Regular guys learning how to survive and not looking to be professional fighters.

I wonder and I ask this without intent to cause controversey, but do you feel that MMA is more suited for the dedicated athlete than the average joe?

Actually i would argue the opposite, that MMA is more suited to the average joe looking for self defence who can only train twice a week than the traditional arts are: there are no sets/ no forms, no esoteric breathing methods to learn, you learn high percentage moves that work in stand up, clinch and ground. I have seen uncoordinated people that have been laughed out of traditional schools learn MMA quite well, the hands on nature or the art means they receive feedback instantly and can make adjustments accordingly

Does that mean these people will become BJJ blackbelts, pro fighters or master the rubber guard?
No but for the average joe looking for some fitness, fun and some practical self defence skills i would say MMA is the way to go

[t_niehoff]

Actually i would argue the opposite, that MMA is more suited to the average joe looking for self defence who can only train twice a week than the traditional arts are: there are no sets/ no forms, no esoteric breathing methods to learn, you learn high percentage moves that work in stand up, clinch and ground. I have seen uncoordinated people that have been laughed out of traditional schools learn MMA quite well, the hands on nature or the art means they receive feedback instantly and can make adjustments accordingly

Does that mean these people will become BJJ blackbelts, pro fighters or master the rubber guard?
No but for the average joe looking for some fitness, fun and some practical self defence skills i would say MMA is the way to go

I completely agree.

One of the myths among TMA people is that MMA is only for elite athletes. Good MMA gyms have classes that are level appropriate, often have women's and kid's classes, and cater to all kinds of people.

[goju]

Actually i would argue the opposite, that MMA is more suited to the average joe looking for self defence who can only train twice a week than the traditional arts are: there are no sets/ no forms, no esoteric breathing methods to learn, you learn high percentage moves that work in stand up, clinch and ground. I have seen uncoordinated people that have been laughed out of traditional schools learn MMA quite well, the hands on nature or the art means they receive feedback instantly and can make adjustments accordingly

Does that mean these people will become BJJ blackbelts, pro fighters or master the rubber guard?
No but for the average joe looking for some fitness, fun and some practical self defence skills i would say MMA is the way to go

i wouldnt from what ive seen the average joe training at mma gyms wouldnt have a very good chance of defending himself either

[Frost]

i wouldnt from what ive seen the average joe training at mma gyms wouldnt have a very good chance of defending himself either

i would argue out of the two, training somewhere where nearly all your time is with a resisting opponent and you are getting hit at varying intensities of contact, and where you learn to live with an opponent standing and on the ground is a better place to train than somewhere where you have to learn forms, dummy training, ancient weapons etc

does that mean you will be able to defend yourself? Maybe not self defence is a tricky thing but you will be fitter and more used to contact than you would if you trained elsewhere

[sanjuro_ronin]

Let's keep it on track guys.

In WSL book he mentions that MA should be Direct, simple and effective.
In his matches, it is reported, that WSL typically won within the first few hits.

Now, in sport systems, people are trained to finish a fight as soon as possible too, of course, BUT the reality isn't the same as, when competing, we are taught to "feel out the opponent", to "not rush it", "take our time", even use the first round as a felling round.
Sure if the chance to win is there we take it, but I am talking about strategy, not opportunity.

[Frost]

Let's keep it on track guys.

In WSL book he mentions that MA should be Direct, simple and effective.
In his matches, it is reported, that WSL typically won within the first few hits.

Now, in sport systems, people are trained to finish a fight as soon as possible too, of course, BUT the reality isn't the same as, when competing, we are taught to "feel out the opponent", to "not rush it", "take our time", even use the first round as a felling round.
Sure if the chance to win is there we take it, but I am talking about strategy, not opportunity.

how can a system that teaches 3 empty handed forms, 2 weapons, a wooden dummy form etc, be more simple and direct than a system that has you sparring pretty much from day 1?

Its easy to win in the first few hits if you are fighting unconditioned fighters.

You talked about competing, thats not what the average Joe wants or does very often, if you take MMA classes and do not compete and want simple direct etc you learn a few punches, how to knee and elbow in the clinch and how to drop someone on their head, thats it, how much more simple can it be?

When my coach teaches self defence (he is a student of geoff thompson of long standing) its basic and to the point: hitting the head as hard as possible and as quickly as possible with whatever is to hand, weapons, your fist your knee to cause a knockout of you choke him out in a few seconds. Hell take the thai clinch and bang his head against the wall!

[sanjuro_ronin]

When my coach teaches self defence (he is a student of geoff thompson of long standing) its basic and to the point: hitting the head as hard as possible and as quickly as possible with whatever is to hand, weapons, your fist your knee to cause a knockout of you choke him out in a few seconds. Hell take the thai clinch and bang his head against the wall!

Geoff is one cool customer.
You realize that, in your description, you described the WSL method of WC.

[SAAMAG]

Well in terms of wing chun, its mean to do it in a way that anyone can do it. If you've got a guy who's 5'3" and he's found himself in an altercation with another guy who's 6' and all muscle, the smaller one isn't going to be putting anyone in a plum or manhandle the other guy.

WSL made the system work...that's what everyone should be striving to do in the wing chun community. It's not meant to be a cookie cutter one size fits all system, its meant to be tailored to the individual.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well in terms of wing chun, its mean to do it in a way that anyone can do it. If you've got a guy who's 5'3" and he's found himself in an altercation with another guy who's 6' and all muscle, the smaller one isn't going to be putting anyone in a plum or manhandle the other guy.

WSL made the system work...that's what everyone should be striving to do in the wing chun community. It's not meant to be a cookie cutter one size fits all system, its meant to be tailored to the individual.

Crazy talk !!!
Go punch a bag or do some weights !!

Sorry..it seems I was channeling some guy named Richard.

[Frost]

Geoff is one cool customer.
You realize that, in your description, you described the WSL method of WC.

if thats true cool have have not studied his method, however i would still argue that the average joe only training a few days a week would be better suited to learning this way, without the forms etc

Do you think the forms, weapons etc are necessary for this kind of training, do you think WSL could have got to where he did get without wing chun, seeing as very few from the yip man school reached his level of fighting, do you think it was the man as much (if not more so) than the style?