MMA hands

[Ultimatewingchun]

In general I agree with Phil Redmond's original post on this thread that mma hands are usually sloppy...with some notable exceptions like Fedor, Machida, Liddell, Cro Cop, etc.

But an underlying issue is the fact that what a pro boxer might have to say about the lack of skills in mma striking has to be taken with several (and one particular) grain of salt:

there is no kicking, clinching, striking in the clinch, knees, elbows, and takedowns allowed in boxing.

And it's especially the takedowns that require major adjustments when using striking hands (ie.- boxing, wing chun, whatever...) in an mma setting.

The whole striking game changes when clinch fighting and especially takedowns are allowed.

And boxing has to take this into account - regardless of how good the boxing skills.

In an alley....how much stick-and-move, use the jab and back away Ali-type boxing would really work? Incredible "boxer"...Muhammad Ali was (for example)....but he even remarked once that if he had to fght Chuck Wepner in an alley - he'd bring his blade!

[Dragonzbane76]

In terms of just pure hitting, I will take boxing gloves, better tape job, and more guaze along with my greater striking repertoire. With boxing gloves one can tee off with impunity using using risky strikes, the same cannot be said for mma and bare knuckles.

i can't see why MMa/BK can't be risky, as you state? actually I think they have more risks involved than boxing, at least for knockouts, or the potential for knockout. Smaller gloves=harder hits. Dont' know if you've taken a shot from those 4oz gloves or not but they do not feel very good. impunity=most of the guys i've seen swinging for the fences in mma charge in like a bull.

[HumbleWCGuy]

i can't see why MMa/BK can't be risky, as you state? actually I think they have more risks involved than boxing, at least for knockouts, or the potential for knockout. Smaller gloves=harder hits. Dont' know if you've taken a shot from those 4oz gloves or not but they do not feel very good. impunity=most of the guys i've seen swinging for the fences in mma charge in like a bull.

I was figuring it up the other day. I have about 150 hours of sparring with a flimsy predecessor to the mma glove. If you are going to be a full-contact minded WC school, what else was their to use? MMa gloves make the shots hurt more but the KO art of it is probably less IMO. When I switched to boxing gloves full time, I learned to hit differently because I did not have to worry about hurting my hands.

[Dragonzbane76]

i agree that there are plus factors to boxing gloves. Do you remember the old gloves bruce lee kinda made famous? i'm wanting to say kendo gloves not sure on that, but anyways, i used to use those they had a lot of padding but you could grasp with them and could do throws and grappling type stuff in them. hum.. wonder if i could still buy a pair of those today?
Anyways, i see your point about the injury factor totally.

[Ludeviews]

First, 16 oz gloves aren't professional competition size gloves. The glove in the video was probably 12 to 14. Second, the total ounce weight of boxing gloves is determined in part by a lot of padding that is outside the striking surface.

I don't think you got my question... I simply asked what you would prefer to be hit by... 16oz or 4oz?

I'll take 16's all day (and I often do!)

In terms of just pure hitting, I will take boxing gloves, better tape job, and more guaze along with my greater striking repertoire. With boxing gloves one can tee off with impunity using using risky strikes, the same cannot be said for mma and bare knuckles.

Just because you think you hit harder with boxing gloves doesn't mean everyone does.

The video you posted showed Bas (who needs no introduction) hit harder in terms of total force with MMA gloves than boxing gloves in a controlled scientific environment.

wonder if i could still buy a pair of those today?

I believe you're looking for Kenpo Gloves

[Ludeviews]

there is no kicking, clinching, striking in the clinch, knees, elbows, and takedowns allowed in boxing.

In addition to the adjustments you and others mentioned that are required for MMA, there's just more to practise...

its no wonder boxers are more skilled at boxing. They only practise boxing all day long.

There's only 24 hours in a day for training... they have to make compromises!! More time spent on striking... less time spent on grappling. Its all balance.

[Dragonzbane76]

I believe you're looking for Kenpo Gloves

ah you might be right i knew it was something with a k in it.

[HumbleWCGuy]

i agree that there are plus factors to boxing gloves. Do you remember the old gloves bruce lee kinda made famous? i'm wanting to say kendo gloves not sure on that, but anyways, i used to use those they had a lot of padding but you could grasp with them and could do throws and grappling type stuff in them. hum.. wonder if i could still buy a pair of those today?
Anyways, i see your point about the injury factor totally.

Actually, believe it or not, we were using some gloves that were primarily for points sparring. They were not the foam dipped gloves. Kempo gloves would have been quite heavy in comparison. I pulled a pair out of the closet. The were called cobras and they were made by a company called Kim Pacific Corp. It looks like they don't make the glove that I am talking about anymore. The padding in the was a little thicker and not quite as firm. I felt the knuckles a bit more in the old gloves.

Here is the link to that company, Kim Pacific Corp.
http://www.kimpacific.com/sparring-gear-sets.html

Here are the "Bruce Lee" gloves.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...FL._AA280_.jpg

Edit:
I found the gloves that we used to use back in the old days
http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-Chop-Vin...906574&sr=1-16

[Frost]

I was figuring it up the other day. I have about 150 hours of sparring with a flimsy predecessor to the mma glove. If you are going to be a full-contact minded WC school, what else was their to use? MMa gloves make the shots hurt more but the KO art of it is probably less IMO. When I switched to boxing gloves full time, I learned to hit differently because I did not have to worry about hurting my hands.

actually although there are more actual knockouts in boxing than MMA you see more one punch knock outs in MMA than you do in boxing, the gloves play a big part in this, not only there 4oz part but the fact they are so small, i took have used the old semi contact foam pads and i can see why you felt hitting with the boxing gloves increased your power because of the reduced risk of injury, but the modern MMA gloves over almost as much protection as the boxing gloves so you can hit really hard with them

[HumbleWCGuy]

actually although there are more actual knockouts in boxing than MMA you see more one punch knock outs in MMA than you do in boxing, the gloves play a big part in this, not only there 4oz part but the fact they are so small, i took have used the old semi contact foam pads and i can see why you felt hitting with the boxing gloves increased your power because of the reduced risk of injury, but the modern MMA gloves over almost as much protection as the boxing gloves so you can hit really hard with them

It seems like you are starting to agree with me that hand protection makes you punch harder. I am surprised that you won't take the next step.

On mma K.O.s versus boxing, MMA has larger weight classes, greater age ranges of fighters, and greater skill disparities within the given fighting ranges. It is not surprising that there are more "one punch" K.O.s.

I keep saying this and nobody has even noticed, but the real difference between boxers/kickboxers and mma-strikers in general is their defense. MMA strikers are not as precise or careful to hone their defense. Certainly, there are boxing defensive methods that don't work in mma but there is plenty that does. I think that too much is being made of the gloves and the striking mechanics, and bad defense is being ignored. I would be shocked if Phil's boxing buddies would not comment on poor defense within the mma structure as much as anything.

[Frost]

It seems like you are starting to agree with me that hand protection makes you punch harder. I am surprised that you won't take the next step.

On mma K.O.s versus boxing, MMA has larger weight classes, greater age ranges of fighters, and greater skill disparities within the given fighting ranges. It is not surprising that their are more "one punch" K.O.s.

I keep saying this and nobody has even noticed, but the real difference between boxers/kickboxers and mma-strikers in general is their defense. MMA strikers are not as precise or careful to hone their defense. Certainly, there are boxing defensive methods that don't work in mma but there is plenty that does. I think that too much is being made of the gloves and the striking mechanics, and bad defense is being ignored. I would be shocked if Phil's boxing buddies would not comment on poor defense within the mma structure as much as anything.

I don't think we ever disagreed on the fact that gloves allow you to hit harder than bare hand, you actually see the number of KO's increase in MMA when they introduced gloves, i simply argue that the size of the MMA gloves: there relative small size and small padding acounts for a lot of the 1 punch knock outs, and contributes to the what phil clled bad standup we see.

They do hone there defence the difference is the smaller glove can get through vurtually any defence: shelling, high guards, hands on the cheek, turning the palm outwards, all of which you see in boxing simply do not work in MMA, the small gloves simply slip through the gaps that are not there with 12 oz boxing gloves. Slipping can work, as can bobing and weaving, the problem is these do not work well that well if the clinch/takedowns/knees are allowed.

the end result is that fighters spend less time in the pocket striking and more time moving in and out, or on the floor knocked out. this is magnified by the fact there are no standing counts in MMA and no three knockdown rule, if you get clipped and hurt you go down and get pounded/submitted or the ref steps in. this again makes MMA fighters much less willing to stand in the pocket and trade.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I don't think we ever disagreed on the fact that gloves allow you to hit harder than bare hand, you actually see the number of KO's increase in MMA when they introduced gloves, i simply argue that the size of the MMA gloves: there relative small size and small padding acounts for a lot of the 1 punch knock outs, and contributes to the what phil clled bad standup we see.

They do hone there defence the difference is the smaller glove can get through vurtually any defence: shelling, high guards, hands on the cheek, turning the palm outwards, all of which you see in boxing simply do not work in MMA, the small gloves simply slip through the gaps that are not there with 12 oz boxing gloves. Slipping can work, as can bobing and weaving, the problem is these do not work well that well if the clinch/takedowns/knees are allowed.

the end result is that fighters spend less time in the pocket striking and more time moving in and out, or on the floor knocked out. this is magnified by the fact there are no standing counts in MMA and no three knockdown rule, if you get clipped and hurt you go down and get pounded/submitted or the ref steps in. this again makes MMA fighters much less willing to stand in the pocket and trade.

1. Trading is not a sign of refined boxing.
2. Boxers rarely trade. MT fighters will trade which is why I only sort of like it.
3. Boxing has hit and run strategies so no boxer would look at an mma fighter and call a fighters hitting and running sloppy.
4. mma fighters generally lack proper footwork and set themselves up for all manner of mayhem.
5. There are so many problems with mma strikers that it would be hard to pin it on just gloves getting through smaller openings. There is too much legitimate sloppiness.
5. MMa is full

[sanjuro_ronin]

its no wonder boxers are more skilled at boxing. They only practise boxing all day long.

End of discussion, time to close the thread, common sense has arrived.

[Phil Redmond]

its no wonder boxers are more skilled at boxing. They only practise boxing all day long.

End of discussion, time to close the thread, common sense has arrived.

Wow, a thread with a logical ending? Go figure.

[Ludeviews]

its no wonder boxers are more skilled at boxing. They only practise boxing all day long.
Wow, a thread with a logical ending? Go figure.

Did I pass the test?