Why are we here?

[k gledhill]

Hello,

While some of what T says is very viable and even good advice, the issue I have is with his spouting as though his way is the only way.

What I find particularly interesting is the fact that T, in a recent post points out that he fought with some Police. It seems that he posted this, and the fact that he has been stabbed, to somehow validate his "experience". However, he discredits those with similar street experience in real encounters, if they do not jump on his bandwagon and sing the praises of his approach as the only real method of training. Somehow, his, T's, experience is transported to a viable experience while others with equally viable street experience is "garbage" or "fantasy".

I am honestly curious as to what makes T's experience valuable but makes everyone elses less so

Terence,

I worked as a correctional officer in a county prison and taught defensive tactics there. It was Delaware County Prison in Thorndale PA. While not the most dangerous place, only low level criminals unless awaiting trial or transport, there were some issues and we did see some violence. However, as I have no video nor verifiable "fight record" I am sure this counts for nothing. Sad to think that the experience I garnered working there amounted to less than working out in the gym

After that I worked as a Housing Police Officer in the Projects of Philadelphia. I even helped to re-establish a Police Presence in Mill Creek Plaza, a place where the City Cops tried to avoid whenever possible. Of course, I was making arrests of scrubs because they were not high level BJJ practitioners. Somehow the fact that they did not willingly get arrested makes this experience also lacking, apparently in your opinion.

I then worked as a PA State Trooper and I must admit that this was a safer job than being a Housing Officer. Still, I also got to make some interesting and what some would consider potentially dangerous arrests, again most were unwilling however this experience also is not up to par with your standards.

Prior to my work in Law Enforcement I was in the U.S. Army. I had the opportunity to go Airborne and Ranger and visited several places in South and Central America. Of course this experience also can't compare to what you have done in the gym.

After leaving Law Enforcement I myself got into a scrape with the local law in the town I grew up in. As some here know my ex was African American and we had several children. A local Police Officer referred to my 12 year old step-daughter using the "N" word. (If you don't know what that is PM me and I'll explain.) Anyhow, I did not handle this all that well and by the time all was said and done I was arrested and charged with Aggravated Assault on four (4) Police Officers. The end of all of this was a Nolle Contende Plea to one count of resisting arrest. The DA was not all that eager to go before a Jury with the testimony of my step-daughter. I did some community service and served one year probation. I only mention this because you mentioned your incident with the law, so I am curious as to why your experience somehow get validated but mine doesn't

Oh, fwiw, the Chief of Police and Officers involved in my altercation are no longer on the force.

Oh, when I got out on bail and the local police thought I went home there was quite a media circus. Apparently the local chief was so concerned that I might return home and cause more problems that he had a SWAT team and over 100 officers from surrounding areas converge on my home. I had the pleasure of watching this on the news. I guess they must of thought I was some sort of dangerous fellow, of course if they knew that my Wing Chun and other acquired skills did not have the benefit of training in the MMA gym they would most likely have just sent in one officer and a trained Gerbil

I have been shot three times, stabbed numerous times. I have shot others and done some other things in my past which while vindicated may not have been the best reaction at the time.

None of this makes me tough nor does it mean my WC is any good.

I again, only mention this to inquire as to what it is that makes my experience or others with equally real street experience, B.S. but somehow allows your experience to be worth listening too??? I think that is the issue most here has with your approach. But then again, I could be completely wrong.

my question too....why is his more than ours ?.....always. Full cup.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Again, forum...Terence Niehoff is hijacking another thread - by making it about himself.

The guy is in complete denial - which means that he lies to himself, and in so doing, he lies to everyone else.

He lies about what's in his posts - which are literally thousands of posts stating little more than "you guys suck...your system sucks...your training sucks...and your wing chun sifu sucks".

THIS IS WHAT HIS POSTS ARE ABOUT...

but in order to hide the real motivation for such posts - he has to make believe (starting with himself) that his posts aren't saying that - they are simply saying that we need to go train with boxers, mma guys, bjj guys, etc. - if we want to get good.

And on the surface that sounds like a reasonable explanation of what he's saying in his posts.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE EXPLANATION.

That's the cover story, the real explanation being that he wants to tell us - over and over again (literally thousands of posts)....

THAT WE SUCK....OUR SYSTEMS SUCK...OUR SIFUS SUCK....AND OUR TRAINING SUCKS.

And what really motivates this guy to spend so much time and energy doing that?

HIS OWN FEELINGS OF INADEQUACY ABOUT HIS WING CHUN, AND THE JEALOUSY AND INSECURITY THAT THIS BRINGS.

This is obsessive/compulsive behavior, and this is a classic case of it. He's willing to say the same things literally thousands of times in order to avoid confronting the painful truth: he never learned any high level wing chun and what he has learned he was never very skilled at.

So he's determined to make us pay the price for that, ie.- he'll beat us over the head with his keyboard every chance he gets...and when there is no chance....he'll invent one.

And naturally, we feel obliged to defend ourselves, our system, our sifu, and our training methods again-and-again.

This thread being the latest case in point.

There's only one way to stop this, Dave/Sihing73....and it doesn't have to be a banning - but editing and deleting seems to be in order.

[SAAMAG]

I think what everyone is forgetting is that this thread is for each person to evaluate why they're here on this forum, and to make sure that the existence of the forum is beneficial to all.

I'm here to have conversation about the things I'm passionate about---that being martial arts and wing chun in particular. I'm here to hear about lessons learned through others' experiences. I'm here to be able to converse with people that are far more skilled than I. I'm here to perhaps try and help others who might not have as much experience than I. I'm here to talk with friends (even the ones I haven't met).

This thread wasn't meant to be a [enter screen name here] bashing thread...it was a question meant to get each person thinking about their motives, their communication skills, and attitude towards other's viewpoints.

I admit, that I can get pulled into the abyss and allow the conversations to degrade into nonsense. But my intention is not that. I think its time that we start thinking of this forum as it's own kwoon. A cyber-kwoon...one where we're all kung fu brothers and where we can enjoy each other's thoughts.

[anerlich]

Do you have to get into a fist fight with cops now to have any cred?

Suggest the answer to this question be put into the forum FAQ.

I'm OK, I did judo at the Police Boys' club back in elementary school days.

[YungChun]

Sounds like Reno911...

Police had no idea they were about to mess with 'The Wing Chun Lawyer' aka 'Terence The Applicator'.. LOL

[t_niehoff]

Hello,

While some of what T says is very viable and even good advice, the issue I have is with his spouting as though his way is the only way.

What I am "spouting" is not my way, but rather we should take a lesson from the good, proven fighters and learn and practice (train) as they do. After all, we know from results that way works really, really well (we also know from scientific studies it works and why). Is there some "other way" to developing good fighting skills? Well, all you or anyone needs to do is provide evidence of it. So far, no one has been able to. But they can tell you good stories.

What I find particularly interesting is the fact that T, in a recent post points out that he fought with some Police. It seems that he posted this, and the fact that he has been stabbed, to somehow validate his "experience". However, he discredits those with similar street experience in real encounters, if they do not jump on his bandwagon and sing the praises of his approach as the only real method of training. Somehow, his, T's, experience is transported to a viable experience while others with equally viable street experience is "garbage" or "fantasy".

I posted that info since Phil asked if I had ever been in a "bareknuckle fight". And I said in a subsequent post (that apparently you did not bother reading) that it means absolutely nothing. Since you missed it, I wrote: "And it doesn't mean squat. Having a fist fight on the street doesn't "prove" anything. I've been stabbed too -- what does that prove? Nothing." Since this refutes everything you just wrote, don't you feel silly?

I am honestly curious as to what makes T's experience valuable but makes everyone elses less so

Yes, you are confused.

[

[t_niehoff]

THAT WE SUCK....OUR SYSTEMS SUCK...OUR SIFUS SUCK....AND OUR TRAINING SUCKS.

Excellent, Victor! That's the first step -- admitting that you are an alcoholic. If you don't recognize the problem, you can't begin to address it.

The problem in WCK is that many of you believe you are "good", that your sifu's are "good", that your training is "good" and therefore you have the answers. It's not until you realize and accept that this is not the case that you can begin to really develop. That's why I, for instance, can admit that I'm not that good while people like you can't (so far, I'm the only one on the forum who has admitted this); that's why I go train at a good, proven BJJ school to become a better grappler while you roll with your untrained students. It all begins with accepting that you really aren't very good.

When you accept that, your next step will be to look for people who have PROVED that they are good, and to seek them out to help you. But, you won't take step two until you've taken step one.

[t_niehoff]

Do you have to get into a fist fight with cops now to have any cred?

Suggest the answer to this question be put into the forum FAQ.

I'm OK, I did judo at the Police Boys' club back in elementary school days.

Apparently you too have reading comprehension issues. Or, you just didn't bother to read what you are commenting on. Or, maybe you are just cherry-picking. You usually have better aim with your snarkiness.

I responded to Phil's question asking whether I ever had a "bareknuckle fight". For him, I guess, this is somehow significant. If not, I don't see why the question is relevent. (BTW, where is you post chiding Phil for asking such a silly question?) I told him that I had -- and then, in the same breath, said it was all fantasy. It's fantasy because, as I have said many times, streetfighting doesn't prove anything.

I followed up that post by explaining to Victor that "And it doesn't mean squat. Having a fist fight on the street doesn't "prove" anything. I've been stabbed too -- what does that prove? Nothing."

[k gledhill]

it wasnt Phil's post...it was mine... who's confused ?


What does self-defense mean ? fighting ? a move ? 2-3 guys always...1 on 1 ? weapons ?
bar fight ? car rage fight....geared up with cod piece and mouth piece wearing big gloves and head gear ?

Ive been stabbed too had guns pulled on me, in a couple of countries, etc....but Ive used VT more than you fighting in real situations, ungeared up . I have also sparred after every class for over 25 years [geared up without gloves], sometimes with thai, judo, boxers..I cant MAKE them be better than they are so I just get on with it, I dont check their credentials, fight history wins v loss records before sparring them everyone respects MY VT ....your history shows another story.

Why YOU think your entitled to rag on us is a mystery...who asked you too ?

Terence you dont see it.....we all do ! you have a problem, like a drinker YOU have to acknowledge it...we're here for you dude ...NOT !

[weakstudent]

I think what everyone is forgetting is that this thread is for each person to evaluate why they're here on this forum, and to make sure that the existence of the forum is beneficial to all.

I'm here to have conversation about the things I'm passionate about---that being martial arts and wing chun in particular. I'm here to hear about lessons learned through others' experiences. I'm here to be able to converse with people that are far more skilled than I. I'm here to perhaps try and help others who might not have as much experience than I. I'm here to talk with friends (even the ones I haven't met).

This thread wasn't meant to be a [enter screen name here] bashing thread...it was a question meant to get each person thinking about their motives, their communication skills, and attitude towards other's viewpoints.

I admit, that I can get pulled into the abyss and allow the conversations to degrade into nonsense. But my intention is not that. I think its time that we start thinking of this forum as it's own kwoon. A cyber-kwoon...one where we're all kung fu brothers and where we can enjoy each other's thoughts.

now thats what i thought it was going to be, thanks for saying that

[t_niehoff]

it wasnt Phil's post...it was mine... who's confused ?

Sorry, you're right -- I wrote Phil and meant you. I apologize to Phil. Funny how I get you guys confused.

What does self-defense mean ? fighting ? a move ? 2-3 guys always...1 on 1 ? weapons ?
bar fight ? car rage fight....geared up with cod piece and mouth piece wearing big gloves and head gear ?

The point is that "self-defense" or "streetfighting" isn't the issue -- developing good, solid fighting skills is. Good, solid fighting skills work REGARDLESS of the venue or curcumstances. If you can't make what you do work while wearing protective gear what makes you believe you can do it without the gear?

Ive been stabbed too had guns pulled on me, in a couple of countries, etc....but Ive used VT more than you fighting in real situations, ungeared up . I have also sparred after every class for over 25 years [geared up without gloves], sometimes with thai, judo, boxers..I cant MAKE them be better than they are so I just get on with it, I dont check their credentials, fight history wins v loss records before sparring them everyone respects MY VT ....your history shows another story.

So you SAY. You may "spar"with your students -- so does Victor. So what? So do karate sensei. Do you think that crap sparring with crap proves that it isn't crap? Just because you spar doesn't mean anything in itself. The TMA guys who fought in the early UFCs sparred with their students too. Go sparwith some good people -- it is important to check credentials. You are, after all, only as good as your sparring partners.

But, I can tell from what you say that you haven't sparred with good people, with good boxers or good muay thai fighters or good judoka, because if you had, you wouldn't be saying the things you are. You'd know better.

Why YOU think your entitled to rag on us is a mystery...who asked you too ?

Terence you dont see it.....we all do ! you have a problem, like a drinker YOU have to acknowledge it...we're here for you dude ...NOT !

I am not entitled to anything, and neither are you. If you want to present yourself as a WCK authority and spout nonsensical theory, you are certainly free to do so. Go ahead. That is entirely your call. However, just as you can do that, I can point out that you really don't have a clue. Point-counterpoint. Why is it you all want to make your point, but you don't want anyone to make a counterpoint?

[CFT]

I came on here to learn. I still do sometimes.

[t_niehoff]

I came on here to learn. I still do sometimes.

I have found and still do find these forums useful for learning. But, IME you need to approach then with a caveat: don't believe anything you hear. Between 5-95 % of what ANYONE says is bullsh1t, so you need to run everything through your bullsh1tmeter.

http://caneprevost.wordpress.com/200...ullsh1t-meter/ (change the URL to the correct spelling of BS to get it to work).

[CFT]

I have found and still do find these forums useful for learning. But, IME you need to approach then with a caveat: don't believe anything you hear. Between 5-95 % of what ANYONE says is bullsh1t, so you need to run everything through your bullsh1tmeter.

http://caneprevost.wordpress.com/200...ullsh1t-meter/ (change the URL to the correct spelling of BS to get it to work).

Good article. In essence not too different to what Yip Man said to his students.

[YungChun]

I posted that info since Phil asked if I had ever been in a "bareknuckle fight". And I said in a subsequent post (that apparently you did not bother reading) that it means absolutely nothing.

Any and every time someone uses their art/skills successfully it means something.. It means that they succeeded in what likely was a high stress dangerous situation.. This is the very thing many folks train for..

That's why I, for instance, can admit that I'm not that good while people like you can't (so far, I'm the only one on the forum who has admitted this)

Not quite.. I said much the same on another post you replied to.. I have no problem saying the same thing as I know folks much better than me.

So you SAY. You may "spar"with your students -- so does Victor. So what? So do karate sensei. Do you think that crap sparring with crap proves that it isn't crap? Just because you spar doesn't mean anything in itself. The TMA guys who fought in the early UFCs sparred with their students too.

And some of them clearly had skills.. One kempo guy comes to mind.. Just because many were taken down (to an unfamiliar range) doesn't mean no TMA there or anywhere don't have skills.

But, I can tell from what you say that you haven't sparred with good people, with good boxers or good muay thai fighters or good judoka, because if you had, you wouldn't be saying the things you are. You'd know better.

Bizarre ad hominem attack.

Translation: 'You're obviously wrong because you don't agree with me.'

What I am "spouting" is not my way, but rather we should take a lesson from the good, proven fighters and learn and practice (train) as they do.

News Flash: Fight with good fighters.

If you can't make what you do work while wearing protective gear what makes you believe you can do it without the gear?

Strawman: He didn't say that he couldn't make it work.

What I am "spouting" is not my way.

No, part of what you are spouting is not your way. . The other part about your particular method being the correct one, 'control first' (and the CSL way) is your method and one you say folks would realize is the correct way if they really had experience fighting good people, which clearly they don't because otherwise they would agree with you.. Another ad hominem variant..