Why are we here?

[Frost]

would any of you guys use your ground stuff in a self defense situation with multiple opponents. the reason i asked is because most self defense situations , its never one opponent its always more than one. well at least in NYC from what i've seen and been around. i have nothing against bjj or ground fighting i'm going to learn a few basics just so i can mess with shawn.

like anelich i too know guys that have survived do using grappling (not just ground fighting but standing grappling) and realistically how well would you fair on your feet against a few guys?

From what i have seen multipule attacks usually end up in some form of grappling situation, even if its just them holding and hitting you so learning some grappling is useful, especially if they knock you to the ground and start to kick the sh*t out of you

[weakstudent]

thanks guys for those answers and i agree as a matter of fact just a few days ago two guys i know that in their 40s had a throwdown and after the first few punches they tangle up and went to the ground and the one with the weight advantage ended up on top. but really didnt do anything. i was a street fight i got the message loud and clear get your cardio right, and at least learn some basic ground stuff.

[t_niehoff]

2. They aren't his ideas. He's just mouthing ideas elucidated better by people that, unlike him, have actually achieved something in MA.

And, I've never claimed them as "my ideas" -- I've been upfront that we should listen to what good fighters and trainers say and adopt their methods, haven't I? So, I guess what you are saying is that I follow my own advice.

Many of us agree with them to some degree,

True. And many others don't. And some give it lip service or say they agree but their practices contradict them. You know, like guys who claim to "agree" wtih me but then practice forms.

just get sick of having them rammed down our throats. I've been doing all the stuff he claims to do for longer than him

Certainly you've been training in BJJ much longer that I have. As far as what you've done with your WCK . . . ?

but don't need to constantly tell everyone about it because of ego, inferiority complex, self hatred or whatever it is drives his compulsion to pollute every thread with his tired, unoriginal crap.

The problem is the messenger, not the message. He pollutes every thread.

Well, someone has to. Someone has to point out the bullsh1t. Unfortunately, you can't point out the bullsh1t (the message) and be warmly received. When you point out the bullsh1t, people invariably resort to name-calling, psychobabble, etc. I mean, after all, what else can they do?

The most interesting thing IMO is to look at who on this forum complains about these things and who doesn't (Dale, Paul, Frost, M1K3, Wayfaring, etc.). It says a lot about how people really train.

[k gledhill]

the man in the glass booth....sound is turned off , yet he rants as if anyone is still listening... ribbet

[sanjuro_ronin]

would any of you guys use your ground stuff in a self defense situation with multiple opponents. the reason i asked is because most self defense situations , its never one opponent its always more than one. well at least in NYC from what i've seen and been around. i have nothing against bjj or ground fighting i'm going to learn a few basics just so i can mess with shawn.

Have used, more than once, worked fine ( it allowed me to get back up).
Look at it this way:
Grappling, one more tool in the arsenal.

[t_niehoff]

the man in the glass booth....sound is turned off , yet he rants as if anyone is still listening... ribbet

Yup, keep complaining . . . but whatever you do, don't go hurting those MMA and MT fighters.

[Ultimatewingchun]

the man in the glass booth....sound is turned off , yet he rants as if anyone is still listening... Ribbet

***This !!!

[k gledhill]

Yup, keep complaining . . . but whatever you do, don't go hurting those MMA and MT fighters.

your too funny ...my point was not hurting some random guy just to prove to the frog prince...
iow brainyack , if Im having an arguement and a guy says I'm full of sh&t why would I walk off and go knock on a strangers door and ask if I could beat 'them' up instead and take a movie to bring back for you to see... kind of random...like punching a guy standing next to you after 'you' insult me on the street , just to show what I may do ...

knock knock, hello I know this a-h+le who insists I beat YOU up to prove my stuff works to HIM, do you mind if I take a movie of it

no T your the one we should all tape beating on...

sound switch back to off position, rant on....

[Wayfaring]

if Im having an arguement and a guy says I'm full of sh&t why would I walk off and go knock on a strangers door and ask if I could beat 'them' up instead and take a movie to bring back for you to see...

There is somewhat of a point here. Picture this:

Walks up to ACS, uhhhh, hello, Mr. Lally? I was, uhhh, wondering, uhhh, well like I got in this argument on the internet, see, and they were all telling me my wing chun sucks, uhhhh, and well, do you think that Ryan Bader could like spar with me, and like uhhhh go kind of easy, and uhhh could I video it to show people on the internet so like this lawyer from St. Louis would know that I uhhh like train the real thing?

Yeah. That would fly.

You'd see this.
http://azcombatsports.com/welcome/wp...c1-200x300.jpg

Except one eye would be raised in a very puzzled expression, wondering if you'd gone off your meds.

[t_niehoff]

There is somewhat of a point here.

There are a number of ways to go about training/sparring at good MMA or MT schools without walking on off the street and challengng them. You could, for instance, set up privates and ask that it include sparring. You could ask if they have open mat time because you'd like to try sparring before you join. You might, God forbid, actually join a good gym (some even let you do it on a trial basis). I've done all three.

And, some MMA people who teach seminars will spar with the attendees. I got to spar with Karo that way.

But, you can always find excuses for not doing it.

[k gledhill]

again hi-f%kin-larious...

T's cunning plan ....

1) I secrete myself into a mma gym [ which I happened to have held my VT classes in for the last 10 years ]
2) I JOIN a club to prove for YOU my Vt is good
3) and then spar etc...bringing the camera along one day

ALL FOR YOU !

Keep it up T your VT may Su&k but you are really humerous

just a BTW , I have held my VT classes in an open MMA gym here in NYC for the last 10 years...along side Thai, BJJ, Sambo, Boxing gym...and a whole host of other ways, kali, jkd etc...[who ask me not to hit their heavy bags too hard and make them swing but in a nice way ) .

We all showed each other something you should try, basic 'respect' for others and what they do, regardless of what YOU may think ....we all got along and didnt have to kill each other like children to prove we had bigger d*cks

[Wayfaring]

There are a number of ways to go about training/sparring at good MMA or MT schools without walking on off the street and challengng them. You could, for instance, set up privates and ask that it include sparring. You could ask if they have open mat time because you'd like to try sparring before you join. You might, God forbid, actually join a good gym (some even let you do it on a trial basis). I've done all three.

And, some MMA people who teach seminars will spar with the attendees. I got to spar with Karo that way.

But, you can always find excuses for not doing it.

There's a point there too.

And for those that do classes in the same location, or have MMA or grappling schools close, there's another option, since many want to train in a primary art first, like on this forum wing chun. Open mats are good. Also, hiring someone to come in and set up your sparring and conditioning program is an option.

However, ego gets in the way.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Awhiel back I took a WC friend of mine to a local MMA/MT gym for him to spar.
I knew the owner/head coach and set it up.
I told him my friend wanted to test his skills with no EGO or chip on his shoulders, just a honest test of his skills.
So he put him in the ring and on the mat with a few guys that had been there less than a year, guys he knew were cool and not aholes.
My friend got to fight and test and see where the holes were and everyone was all the better for it.

[Frost]

Awhiel back I took a WC friend of mine to a local MMA/MT gym for him to spar.
I knew the owner/head coach and set it up.
I told him my friend wanted to test his skills with no EGO or chip on his shoulders, just a honest test of his skills.
So he put him in the ring and on the mat with a few guys that had been there less than a year, guys he knew were cool and not aholes.
My friend got to fight and test and see where the holes were and everyone was all the better for it.

yep proper MMA schools will welcome anyone to spar with them, and at whatever intensity the person comng in wants to train at.

at the gym i am at you if want to spar hard no problem, depending on your skill level you can go with amatures, pros of guys getting ready for the nect UFC, grappling wise you have amature and pros as well. If you are an ass you get treated as such, but most guys welcome sparring different people it keeps them sharp.