He didn't try to fight, or even adequately defend! Haven't you been reading this thread? ;-)Originally Posted by slick69
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He didn't try to fight, or even adequately defend! Haven't you been reading this thread? ;-)
Last edited by KPM; 02-04-2014 at 10:57 AM.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
People can SAY whatever they want.
We are seeing the fruits of when they actually try to DO.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
GM of Hadaka Korosu
There is actually NO REASON to believe that Sifu Bayer would be able to do any better against Shawn, or any worse for that matter.
There is no reason to believe any possible outcome without actually seeing them VS each other.
That is kind of the point of this thread ( or at least how it is straining to run) and that is that NO ONE can make a call on how they or ANYONE else would fair against a trained fighter.
It is just pointless to do that.
I have seen clips of Sifu Bayer and he certainly knows HIS WC and Chi sao, but what was going on in that clip was NOT HIS WC/Chi sao.
To state that Sifu Bayer would be able to handle Shawn is ridiculous unless a person has seen him do just that OR at the VERY LEAST handle someone like Shawn in THOSE conditions ( fully resisting).
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Whatever it was, it was started by his online bashing or someone else's skills. No good can come from that behaviour.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Who said that he was elite?
I don't think he even has a winning record in MMA.
That just makes Kevin look worse by the way.
The point is that when you are used to doing anything ( in this case Chi sao) a certain way and then someone takes you out of your comfort zone, chaos tends to happen and this video is an example of that.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
This is why it's important to spar/wrestle with guys who does not come from your system. As long as you and your opponent can both agree with the rules, you should be able to spar/wrestle with anybody from any style.
Assume that we don't talk about style here, what's the "common sense" method to stop a guy who keeps rushing in toward you?
- A 45 degree downward haymaker to the side of the head, or
- a front kick to the chest/belly should do the job.
- ...
The solution to "B" is what everybody will need to train for the rest of his life. What can be more realistic when someone tries to rush in and tries to knock your head off?
IMO, the "stick hands" has more value in the grappling art than in the striking art. It's just too easy to "dis-connect that bridge" in a pure striking game.
Sometime I just wonder, why the
- WC sticky hands will always turn into boxing game, and
- Taiji push hands will always turn into wrestling game?
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-04-2014 at 11:34 AM.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
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I agree. That's why, once again, I don't chi-sau outside of my lineage and insist on going straight to sparring. Of course free sparring must be a part of your training anyway, if you're going to do anything outside of drills.
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I don't think it is fair to post that video as a prop in this debate LFJ. Around that time I was in conversation with Obasi via the youtube personal messaging system. He was with, if memory serves, Grados at the time. Shawn was, IMO, a bit more arrogant back then but learned, like most of us do and will continue to do, the hard way. I think I was telling him that Grados was not the only Sifu on the block and that he should visit other Sifus who had more 'experience' and see just what was out there. I don't think I was the only one that told him this. We all need good coaches and guidance just sometimes it takes a while to find a training partnership that both parties feel will work and be fruitful.
Last edited by Paddington; 02-05-2014 at 03:06 AM.
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This is a good way to look at, assumptions can get you killed.
I think the problem in the video lies in how you define chi sau and what it entails, I think both of them may have different ideas, as Kevin said at the end of the vid, "That's not chi sau", for him it isn't, for me too, for Shawn it may be.
Also, this issue about "Fighting" and being a "Fighter", these have nothing to do IMO with WC/VT, how can it, or how can it relate to any Martial Art, are they not all about development. If MA was not about developing something within the person that they didn't have before, there would be no MA in the world today, as ppl would fight as their training method? Why do kata or form, why do mok jong or long pole, why do bag work, skipping, why lift weights, stretch, why do anything that is not actual fighting? We do these things to indirectly help it along, not necessarily to fight, because for me this has nothing to do with "Fighting", I just do these things b/c first I like it, it's enjoyable (lifting isn't much, but I enjoy the health affect..), 2nd it's fun, training in VT is fun, interesting, and it helps me keep focus and mental intent.
Now for me, if someone if Fully resisting while in chi sau posture/positions then it's not Chi sau anymore, as anyone can resist it, tense up the muscles and form a shell around them so nothing gets in, but that is never the point of chi sau, to score a hit or defeat, wrong intent IMO, but to work together to gain a skill set you didn't have or were unaware of before, the working together part can get more and more intense and involve more and more challenges, but its not a fight or a comp, it's still in a way cooperative, like a boxing trainer doing pad work to bring something out with his fighter..
James
FB page Inclusive Ving Tsun
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Inclu...16835268370570
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Expertise tends only to exist within the parameters of ones own domain. When an expert comes across seeming randomized stimuli, they respond in the same ways a novice would, (because they lack the skill to decipher the cluster of cues effectively enough to respond).
In my opinion, to assume everyone will move in accordance with your own insular view of reality is ego-attachment to your own paradigm of belief.
suki
"From a psychological point of view, demons represent the universal equivalents of the dark, cruel, animal depths of the mind. When we as martial artists are preparing ourselves to overcome our fear of domination at the hands of an opponent, we must go deep within our inner being and allow the darkest parts of ourselves to be revealed. In order to battle the monsters in an abyss, we must sometimes unleash the demon within" http://darkwingchun.wordpress.com/
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So you would spar with old men like Sanuel Kwok & Ip Chun? Stop making excuses for not being able to chi-sau...
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I wouldn't do anything with them. Waste of time.
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Much better example of someone using their system to handle the situation - and he was in good control of the attempted knee from Obasi (who, also, looks in great shape in this clip - big guy!)
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So what is your linage? Would you have not bother with Ip Man us his later days?
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