Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

But haven't you wasted enough time with Sin The? I mean, come on. How much energy are you willing to put in to sort that mess out? .

LOL. How much time have you put into this thread in the past 6 months?

I'd say, you put in many hours of "work" while I was out training. Surely you're not suggesting that I'm the one who's obsessed with sorting that "mess" out? Like it or not, you're a ****ing trainwreck, and likely a fat little teenager who I'd kick the crap out of in 5 seconds or less (or snatch to the ground with a single-leg in 5 seconds or less). No doubt you have the five fingers of death with all the typing you do, but they're QWERTY deadly only on webboards.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I trained under a teacher for nearly five years. I learned 2 kicks, 5 punches, 1 elbow technique, and how to knee somebody from the clinch. Only after 4 years of training did he think to teach me a kata. I can respect that.

I don't think I could ever respect a teacher who teaches forms they learned from a book or video. I would prefer to train and learn the things they actually know.

No takedowns in the first 3 months?

You wasted 5 years...katas or no.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think however the main difference, if we look at shorin ryu aka 'shaolin style' is that it is a fusion of okinawan martial arts, already known in depth and used, with that of shaolin martial arts. You have a venerated warrior, known across the land, combining his current martial knowledge with new things he learned. The name given was to honor the roots of the chinese martial arts that influenced the change, as well as to set this style apart from other okinawan styles of the day.

you cant really compare shaolin do and shorin ryu as they have very different histories.

It needs to be understood that the Okinawan took whatever form of TCMA they learned ( White Crane, Five Ancestors, SPM, dragon shape, etc) and made it their own.
They blended the TCMA they learned WITH the indigenious MA of "TE".
The forms became "karate".
Sanchin is a perfect example, regardless of which verison they learned, people like Miyagi, Higanona, Uechi, and others, modified it and made it unique to the okinawan way of doing things.
There was never the idea that "this is how it was done in the shaolin temple" or anything silly like that.
Okinawa systems are quite clear on how much the originators made their karate original.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Forms are almost completely useless to begin with. SD just makes it even worse.

The "all forms were made up at some point" argument is complete bullshit for the same reasons that SD makes people look like spastic reanimated donkey rectum; forms aren't just made up. They evolve out of a specific context and environment and they're hard enough to perform competently within that proper context. Why do you think styles of Chinese gongfu almost always have some regional identifier attached to them? That's my objection to it, I don't care that it was "stolen" I find the complete disregard for quality offensive.

Okay. Which SD forms specifically are made up and which ones aren't? Which ones are quality and which ones arent? I've held my own in MMA and Muay Thai with the same techniques I learned in SD---not against pros, mind you, but against other students. Also, many of the techniques we teach are taught by others--the takedowns, drills, and throws.

I call this empirical evidence of SD's martial trustworthiness in many respects. It also has failings. I agree. And the "regional identifier" I usually see attached is that SD is a Chinese Indies art, not a "Chinese" art per se. Our forms look like our core curriculum---30 short forms, 30 chinna, our two-man techniques/ippons, and sparring techs. And the principles taught by this core curriciulum are, well, standard amoingst MA schools with a focus on combat, not forms.

BTW, I've been to traditiional CMA schools where the vast majority look like "spastic reanimated donkey rectums." You'd have to admit this, because it's universal in MA schools (even MMA). Many students simply can't do forms or dirlls properly with the right mechanics, since many are out of shape (and not getting in better shape), and hence just CAN'T do forms or drills properly.

[wenshu]

I call this empirical evidence of SD's martial trustworthiness in many respects.

Your definition of 'empirical evidence' is woefully inadequate. You probably know better too.

No, what you have is a personal anecdote of a subjective observation.

Where exactly are all the examples of this supposedly pure core source material? In any case, it sure as hell ain't pure anymore. Taint by association. Nothing can withstand the weight of 800 pounds and thirty years of bullshit. If the core material was so great, Shaolin Do should've fucking stuck with it. Why spend all that time massacring a bunch of forms that don't even begin to fit within your system?

Nothing in martial arts looks as bad as Shaolin Do. Nothing. I don't care if someone walked into a BJJ school, put on a Gi and then proceeded to take a steaming dump in the middle of the mat. Just by virtue of it taking place in a real school it's orders of magnitude better than Shaolin Do. I'd still rather roll on that mat than practice anything remotely resembling Shaolin Do.

There is no amount of personal anecdotes about how much ass you can kick that is going to wash away the taint of the laughable mish mash of almost a thousand forms that surrounds Shaolin Do.

Ok, maybe USSD is as bad.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Your definition of 'empirical evidence' is woefully inadequate. You probably know better too.

No, what you have is a personal anecdote of a subjective observation.

Where exactly are all the examples of this supposedly pure core source material? In any case, it sure as hell ain't pure anymore. Taint by association. Nothing can withstand the weight of 800 pounds and thirty years of bullshit. If the core material was so great, Shaolin Do should've fucking stuck with it. Why spend all that time massacring a bunch of forms that don't even begin to fit within your system?

Nothing in martial arts looks as bad as Shaolin Do. Nothing. I don't care if someone walked into a BJJ school, put on a Gi and then proceeded to take a steaming dump in the middle of the mat. Just by virtue of it taking place in a real school it's orders of magnitude better than Shaolin Do. I'd still rather roll on that mat than practice anything remotely resembling Shaolin Do.

There is no amount of personal anecdotes about how much ass you can kick that is going to wash away the taint of the laughable mish mash of almost a thousand forms that surrounds Shaolin Do.

Ok, maybe USSD is as bad.

Awesome. And you're posting here because? Oh yeah, because SD sucks. Lol

[Shaolin Wookie]

Your definition of 'empirical evidence' is woefully inadequate. You probably know better too.

No, what you have is a personal anecdote of a subjective observation.

Where exactly are all the examples of this supposedly pure core source material? In any case, it sure as hell ain't pure anymore. Taint by association. Nothing can withstand the weight of 800 pounds and thirty years of bullshit. If the core material was so great, Shaolin Do should've fucking stuck with it. Why spend all that time massacring a bunch of forms that don't even begin to fit within your system?

Nothing in martial arts looks as bad as Shaolin Do. Nothing. I don't care if someone walked into a BJJ school, put on a Gi and then proceeded to take a steaming dump in the middle of the mat. Just by virtue of it taking place in a real school it's orders of magnitude better than Shaolin Do. I'd still rather roll on that mat than practice anything remotely resembling Shaolin Do.

There is no amount of personal anecdotes about how much ass you can kick that is going to wash away the taint of the laughable mish mash of almost a thousand forms that surrounds Shaolin Do.

Ok, maybe USSD is as bad.

Insofar as all empirical evidence is subjectively obtained, I'm not sure what you mean. Is empirical evidence a gnostic revelation.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Every school has same core. 30 short forms, which are punching drills, not forms. 30 sparring sequences, 30 china which are holds and escapes, and about 20 2-man stepping and retaliation drills. Nothing fancy there. Standard stuff

[hskwarrior]

every school has same core. 30 short forms, which are punching drills, not forms. 30 sparring sequences, 30 china which are holds and escapes, and about 20 2-man stepping and retaliation drills. Nothing fancy there. Standard stuff

stolen from who?

[wenshu]

Insofar as all empirical evidence is subjectively obtained, I'm not sure what you mean. Is empirical evidence a gnostic revelation.

I guess you don't know any better.

I'd offer you a rebuttal about measurable results by multiple independent subjects as a baseline for empirical objectivity but you would only offer more maladroit philosophical equivocation.

[bawang]

Awesome. And you're posting here because? Oh yeah, because SD sucks. Lol

i post to collect tears of shaolin do inside bottle, then wear on neck for magical protection.

[bawang]

i thought black people had natural rhythm and dance, then i saw video of black shaolin do guy.

thank you for breaking stereotype shaolin do, now i know black people can also hop around with rubber legs, empty distant gaze, hunched back, giving floppy snap kicks like they have feet of rabbit.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Lol, in other words you could subjectively offer empirical evidence, but you subjectively choose not to. Universal empiricist a are as silly as theists.

[Shaolin Wookie]

stolen from who?

The ten tigers of canton. Lol. Nobody needs to steal sweeps, throws, locks, and punches.

[hskwarrior]

black people without rhythm is like Shaolin Do with authentic gung fu.