Do Most Fights Go to the Ground? (Research conducted)

[k gledhill]

so who do you think will hit the ground first all things being equal?
a grappler trained to deal with throws and takedowns or someone who isnt

people go down from losing balance, being hit in the head too. But a grappler would have a better response , sprawls etc...I teach students sprawling basic open palm strikes to lowered heads of guys coming in low. Palms have a stunning effect rather than a ko , but you can follow up after with kicks etc...Ive used this fighting.

[Frost]

As I am not an expert in BJJ, Wrestling, or other ground fighting. I don't want to be on the ground if I can help it, if I can help it, I will do some damage, then get back up. Since if I am committed to a chock or other ground techniques, the attacker's mate might be able to take advantage of my position and kick or floor me when I am on the floor.

BTW, you research is very informative. And thanks for your research.

Just a question, why do you post this in Wing Chun Thread?

so you don’t know anything about ground fighting but you will if you end up on the floor do damage and get back up to your feet…LMAO doing damage from bottom is the hardest thing to do in MMA/grappling, closely followed on the scale of hardness by getting back up from under a determined attacker if you have no specifically trained both of those things over and over you will be in for a surprise …..

And what makes you think a grappler will go or a choke or a submission or the one on the floor? me im throwing and soccer kicking your head or kneeling on you and smashing your head into the ground

[Frost]

i remember when this study came out, what always stuck in my mind was that youtube is not a fully dependable source for real life. they dont leave vids up there where people are shot, stabbed, broken or killed. you can only see the vids that actually meet the terms of agreements for youtube. granted its a grand effort with great results but not entirely realistic. can anyone find several fatal knife attacks on youtube right now? im not looking but id put money on no being the answer.

"Either fight or exit the scene. Make the decision quickly."

could not possibly agree with this anymore.


those that are not ground experts need to ask themselves; 'what will i do when i get taken down by a ground fighter?' in addition to working on attaining the skills needed, what will you do in the mean time? what if your meager ground skills dont hold up?

i would be interested in knowing statistics on how knives change it all up, in regards to final outcomes. i have pretty limited knowledge on the ground, something im working on, but at this point if i get taken down by someone who i feel is knowledgable on the ground they will need to make sure i dont stab them because I will try, and try my best. i keep a knife on me pretty much at all times, partially for this reason. a blade can equalize a lot of skill...especially if you have the suprise with it and take the initiative to use it.

however its also important to note that i dont start fights, or even look for them, and will always seek the peacful solution first, the withdrawl second, the quick KO/incap third and above all survival. some people you just know are violent though so being able to judge when to attack right away without delay is also important.

if a known ground fighter takes me down, thats akin to fighting an armed man unarmed for me, so drawing a weapon is the logical solution until my skillset can catch up to what i need. the trick though is that you never know what someone knows, unless you know.

i dont think many people actually take knives into constant consideration.

there was a time when it would have been expected for everyone to have some sort of blade on them...it certainly would make for more general respect if you knew a fight often meant getting cut or stabbed

So your up for stabbing an unarmed man as soon as he takes you to the ground…have fun in jail, they might even be able to get you on premeditated murder since you a) carry a weapon at all times and b) have admitted in an open forum you are prepared to stab someone (hope no one here knows your identity!)

Knife’s change all areas of fighting, as long as you have the ability to deploy them, since most of grappling is about cutting down space and controlling limbs unless you actually train with knifes when grappling and train to deploy them whilst under attack it might be harder than you think, and whilst most grapplers don’t think about weapons, some do and some even carry them…want a bet as to who could do more damage on the ground with a knife and who would be more able to deploy and use one, a grappler or a non grappler?

from what i see most people carry knifes on their belts, in pockets orin their boots, when mounted or side controlled access to those parts are very difficult, especially if someone is raining down blows on you and instinct is to cover up.

In mount my legs would cover my opponents pockets and my body block access to the belt and legs for the most part, in side control my hip blocks the near side arm and my underhook the far side arm from getting to the body, you might be able to get access from knee on stomach but if you stop shielding your face from my punches to reach for your pockets most people with half a brain would realise something was up and start stomping your head (knee on stomach gives you so much ability to move that’s why its great for the street) even in guard a good grappler will be controlling your arms as he stacks you and pounds you.

So your best bet is to deploy when standing in the clinch before it hits the ground, but again easier said than done when you are being hit, moved around and your arms controlled at the bicep, elbow or with underhooks, or when you hit the ground but before they have control, again not easy as most throws/takedowns flow straight into pins if the grappler is good

Am I saying a knife isn’t a great equalizer, no…… am I saying grappling against someone with a knife is easy, no….. what I am saying is that without some grappling training deploying a knife can be harder than you think, and your argument is akin to me saying my stand up sucks as soon as someone goes to punch me im stabbing them over and over…..see how silly that sounds….only difference is that standing id have a better chance of getting my knife out and actually using it

[Frost]

people go down from losing balance, being hit in the head too. But a grappler would have a better response , sprawls etc...I teach students sprawling basic open palm strikes to lowered heads of guys coming in low. Palms have a stunning effect rather than a ko , but you can follow up after with kicks etc...Ive used this fighting.

yep people slip and fall over all the time, hence learning to grapple can really help you regain your feet against an opponent intent on hurting you

[m1k3]

people go down from losing balance, being hit in the head too. But a grappler would have a better response , sprawls etc...I teach students sprawling basic open palm strikes to lowered heads of guys coming in low. Palms have a stunning effect rather than a ko , but you can follow up after with kicks etc...Ive used this fighting.

LOL. This comment shows that you know very little about grappling.

So, you're teaching people who don't know how to grapple how to stop a takedown from someone else who doesn't know how to grapple.

No wonder you feel competent to post about grappling.

[Sardinkahnikov]

i cant go to bjj class because its too expensive

now im afraid i will die in street combat

**** you helio

[k gledhill]

LOL. This comment shows that you know very little about grappling.

So, you're teaching people who don't know how to grapple how to stop a takedown from someone else who doesn't know how to grapple.

No wonder you feel competent to post about grappling.

Not everyone who comes head down is a grappler...you assume every guy you fight out of a gym does bjj?

I have used it personally in fights. It works when you have bare hands and no gloves like out of a gym....
You want to break your knuckles on his head?

[m1k3]

Not everyone who comes head down is a grappler...you assume every guy you fight out of a gym does bjj?

I have used it personally in fights. It works when you have bare hands and no gloves like out of a gym....
You want to break your knuckles on his head?

LOL, no one who is coming head down is a grappler.

And no, if he comes in with a lowered head, I'm not going to break my knuckles or smack him with my palm either. I'm going to put him in a guillotine and put him to sleep.

Going for a takedown with a lowered head is begging to be choked unconscious.

Stick to Wing Chun, talking about grappling just shows how little you know about grappling. Although from what I'm reading not many people here are impressed with you WC either.

[faxiapreta]

Not everyone who comes head down is a grappler...you assume every guy you fight out of a gym does bjj?

I have used it personally in fights. It works when you have bare hands and no gloves like out of a gym....
You want to break your knuckles on his head?

Why would you use open palms to hit someone in the head when he is doing a football tackle style takedown? That won't stop anyone. You'd be much better off to either use some type of head control or used strikes or knees to the face. Palm strikes to the head do nothing.

[faxiapreta]

LOL, no one who is coming head down is a grappler.

And no, if he comes in with a lowered head, I'm not going to break my knuckles or smack him with my palm either. I'm going to put him in a guillotine and put him to sleep.

Going for a takedown with a lowered head is begging to be choked unconscious.

In the interest of fairness, lots of grapplers use a head down takedown... many BJJ guys never really get good at takedowns and continue to use bad "head down, bum rush" style in takedowns.

That being said, palm strikes to the head sure isn't going to stop anyone, even someone who isn't a grappler.

[m1k3]

In the interest of fairness, lots of grapplers use a head down takedown... many BJJ guys never really get good at takedowns and continue to use bad "head down, bum rush" style in takedowns.

That being said, palm strikes to the head sure isn't going to stop anyone, even someone who isn't a grappler.

Not true, a bjj'er will grab your shirt and jump into guard.

[k gledhill]

LOL, no one who is coming head down is a grappler.

And no, if he comes in with a lowered head, I'm not going to break my knuckles or smack him with my palm either. I'm going to put him in a guillotine and put him to sleep.

Going for a takedown with a lowered head is begging to be choked unconscious.

Stick to Wing Chun, talking about grappling just shows how little you know about grappling. Although from what I'm reading not many people here are impressed with you WC either.

And if he had 2-3 guys behind him? Oh yeah one on one....sure you can do anything you like. The articles posted in a VT forum I do VT.

[k gledhill]

Why would you use open palms to hit someone in the head when he is doing a football tackle style takedown? That won't stop anyone. You'd be much better off to either use some type of head control or used strikes or knees to the face. Palm strikes to the head do nothing.

I wouldn't for a charging tackle I said he's head down. I'm relating not resorting to a grappling counter for
A Guy advancing head down. VT IS A STRIKING SYSTEM
STANDUP. I can also do a guillotine if the situation allows it.
Horses for courses i have used it palm to head., Guy stands up holding his head in both hands like he has an instant. Headache.
I could care less if you believe me or not.

Yeah it wont STOP a Guy it will stun them...for other things .....

[faxiapreta]

I wouldn't for a charging tackle I said he's head down. I'm relating not resorting to a grappling counter for
A Guy advancing head down. VT IS A STRIKING SYSTEM
STANDUP. I can also do a guillotine if the situation allows it.
Horses for courses i have used it.

What? Who advances head down, other than in an 3rd grade school fight? Nobody does this.

[m1k3]

And if he had 2-3 guys behind him? Oh yeah one on one....sure you can do anything you like. The articles posted in a VT forum I do VT.

Why does everyone assume that grapplers are anti-social loners. I go out with my friends who many of them are grapplers also.

Yes the articles posted in a VT forum but it was discussing GRAPPLING. And lord knows there are a lot of misinformed people who will post things about how they will handle what a grappler will do without having a clue about grappling.

In case you didn't notice I didn't discuss VT at all, only you're miss-assumptions about grappling.

Do try to keep up, ok?