Luohan Quan

[RenDaHai]

Shemmati,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfHRsGJqfg8

This form, jin tong luohan, Da luohan, The most common luohan,

It is not an old form. It was created in the late 80's / early 90's era.

The old version of this form is much longer and this is a shortened version of it. IT used to stop at the 'contemplation' posture, but then for the 90's competitions they added a few moves from pao quan to the end to make it a bit longer and fill the correct time slot for competition.

Where it comes from is from LZH luohan 3+4+5 which is the long set. Set 6 is the beginning of San Lu Luohan. 1+2 is Yi lu luohan.


This is the classic 'Da Luohan' in the Deng Feng Area

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8re...=results_video

I think it must be the one from Li Gen Seng. It contaisn largely the same material and is approximately LZH 3+4 (without 5).

[SHemmati]

It is in the book by LZH and WangXiGan. The unusual Luohan 18 shou from Xi Yuan pai.

Ren and others! i'm not sure at the moment, and i'm more tired than that i can check it at the moment! but you can check it:

there's a Luohan quan form:

Luohan Quan 1lu (form)- shaolin.org.cn
Luohan Quan 1lu+2lu (the 2lu here is Xiao/1Lu Luohan!!!), forms and applications

this form seemed to me at the first sight to be the the matching form for those Luohan 18 Shi in Liu Zhenhai&Wang Xigan's book, but it has more movements, however. interestingly, they've coupled this so-called 1lu form with Xiao/1Lu Luohan as the 2lu!!!
(i don't know where, but i've seen this form somewhere else, under a different title! besides, why they've considered it as 1lu to Xiao/1Lu Luohan? it's a 1Lu itself!!!)

[Sal Canzonieri]

This is all so cool, thanks to all of you for doing so much hard work. It's come a long way and a few years have passed since we started looking at these things.

Ren, the poem seems to have one of the Luhoan postures kinda fit for each line.
And to me, the poem makes sense for qigong and why the taoist Zhang family, the Chen family, and Dong Cheng were so interested in the 18 Luohan Hands Qigong, it must have coded information that they understood better back then.

Shemmati, that's a pretty great observation you made. It seems to really fit, so now the 54 posture set has been rediscovered. The 27 posture set is logical then which one it is, and that leaves the 108, which the other two were always said to have been derived from.

[RenDaHai]

Ren, the poem seems to have one of the Luhoan postures kinda fit for each line.
And to me, the poem makes sense for qigong and why the taoist Zhang family, the Chen family, and Dong Cheng were so interested in the 18 Luohan Hands Qigong, it must have coded information that they understood better back then.

Yes, exactly. Each line is literally the name of each posture. Wang Xiang Wo bing is lying down in a sleeping luohan like posture, Xian Ren Zhi Lu is double sword fingers stabbing, etc. etc.

[RenDaHai]

Ren and others! i'm not sure at the moment, and i'm more tired than that i can check it at the moment! but you can check it:

there's a Luohan quan form:

Luohan Quan 1lu (form)- shaolin.org.cn
Luohan quan lu+2lu, forms and applications

Woha!!!!!!!!!!

This is gonna need some attention from all of us. I don't know what this is at first glance. Good catch Shemmati!!

I'm gonna think on it

[RenDaHai]

there's a Luohan quan form:

Luohan Quan 1lu (form)- shaolin.org.cn
Luohan Quan 1lu+2lu (the 2lu is Xiao/Lao/ChaShou Luohan!!!), forms and applications

Ok!

On further analysis, this form, this new YiLu Luohan quan is

LZH Xiao Tong bei road 1 with a bit of extra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUNB8KPVpe8

(Watch the first road)

These Xiao TOng bei forms have the most names of all.

This part 1 is also called 13 chui and Xiao TOng bei 1 and is often combined with part 2 to be the start of Da Liu He Quan. It is very confusing but that is definately it.

But that is the first one.

Then we have a whole load more! I don't know what these other ones will be. 15 Roads! Haven't had a chance to look yet, but everything we look at seems to come back to LZH research at some point!

[SHemmati]

this new YiLu Luohan quan is

LZH Xiao Tong bei road 1 with a bit of extra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUNB8KPVpe8

yes, confirmed, it's a shorter amalgamation of XiYuan Tong Bi quan, the beginning of the 1st road and extra movements from all over the other roads. (like the PuBu stance and the final 5 flower kicks (五花起脚: wu hua qi jiao), etc, these are found in the 2nd Xiao road and the 1st Da road, for example.)

[Sal Canzonieri]

Ok!

On further analysis, this form, this new YiLu Luohan quan is

LZH Xiao Tong bei road 1 with a bit of extra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUNB8KPVpe8

(Watch the first road)

These Xiao TOng bei forms have the most names of all.

This part 1 is also called 13 chui and Xiao TOng bei 1 and is often combined with part 2 to be the start of Da Liu He Quan. It is very confusing but that is definately it.

But that is the first one.

Then we have a whole load more! I don't know what these other ones will be. 15 Roads! Haven't had a chance to look yet, but everything we look at seems to come back to LZH research at some point!

Well, LZH vcds of Xiao Tongbei 2 is Taizu Chang Quan Er Lu (as verified by the Shaolin Encyclopedia too). And that is sometimes called Da Liu He Quan, which is bizarre to me. What's the history behind it being called that?

LZH Xiao Tongbei 1 is also called 13 Chui, which sounds really familiar, either has to do with Tongbei Quan that influenced Chen TJQ or it has to do with some pre-Ming Shaolin, not remembering at the moment.

Sucks that people are being so random about what they names the sets in these documents. They want to see us work. ha.

[Sal Canzonieri]

during the Qing Dynasty all Shaolin sets were said as being part of the Luohan System.

during the Ming Dynasty, all Shaolin sets were said as being part of the Hong system.

By Qing, the word Hong was associated with Ming emeperor and with anti-Qing rebels. So they stopped using that word cause the Qing threatened to shut down Shaolin for good if they were harboring any Hong Men people.
They did shut it down in the 1700s for a little while. That's when they developed the Kanjia System out of what they had left and it was a secret system out of sight of the Qing.

During the 1600s the Tongbi Quan sets were revered.
During the 1500s the Hong Quan and Pao Quan sets were the most important and revered.
During the 1400s the Luohan sets were.

[RenDaHai]

Haha, yeah, they are making us work!

I still have not identified the other Luohan Quans,

There were 15 quan pu on the Shaolin official website, the pictures were just for the first one. When I downloaded them 1 by 1 I saw that it was XTB 1 (I also practice this form, albeit a slightly different version).

14 more Quan Pu to Go! Some are very short.

Here they are for convenience:

罗汉拳拳谱（一路）

足手拳，转子莲，黑虎掏心开胸炮，
意智静神足阴交，下使踩足炮。
腋下藏月人难逃，转身一步开敌炮。
蹲身出手把敌捞，回身一步冲天炮。
溅步扫腿人不晓，双手一使莲花瓣。
罗汉转身要阴巢，小鬼扳跌劈腿捞。
罗汉开指防后交，黄牛亮裆肘开胸。
黄莺捉嗉把人伤，后退一步龙摆尾。
纵身转身望天飞，后退一步罗汉势。
罗汉转面如燕飞，上前抓住敌人衣。
哼哈劈头归了西，转身诱步虎抱头。
去里藏月把敌诱，出手扰手即双手。
十指莲花把枪抽，虚步缩身罗汉势。
千斤砸拳要护头，罗汉缩身把佛望。
五花起脚归西方。


罗汉拳拳谱（二路）

罗汉换手一根骨，提步闪莲双手扑。
迎面入捶即掺跳，返身起手似猛虎。
偷步盘肩加蹬扑，蹲身撺拳香一柱，
出手入手鸾风舞，靠身盘肘罗汉骨，
双手抱耳鸣天鼓，扣手崩捶返身扑，
臂开中门似车轮，合手阴阳叠双肘，
直取上极点上唇，抱头扭耳打敌门，
翻身又加螳螂打，盘肘过脑取后心。


罗汉拳拳谱（三路）

右捶打，左腿跨，合双掌，望天塔。
鹞子翻身岔挡跌，纳眉低头翻外身。
野马上槽迎面闯，硬取中间翻外身。
撑腿蹲身双手扣，力臂中门分左右。
挑手即取撩阴挡，招前扭身忙挡后。
尖尖扣手破骨打，顺水投开无解忧。
反身起手加双捆，硬取左门须防右。
看上打下即一理，关住铁门十八揍。
硬崩实砸遂手入，合法全似双勾手。
出手通背加开闭，还要前手跟后手。
撂手代封窝里剖，左右摔掠忙叠肘，
盘户入头单起膝，回手转身缠封掌。


罗汉拳拳谱（四路）

罗汉入手取高骨，蹲身掌步入环肘。
崩开盘肘跟后手，迎面直逼回身走。
取腰全凭同背骨，取上打下赛猛虎。
崩捶过脑飞当空，抱头边步取当中。
提步闷莲看形影，劈破中门压当顶。


罗汉拳拳谱（五路）

罗汉一走倒提杆，偷手翻身取海底。
蹲身一步即掺跳，鹞子翻身黄龙罩。
崩砸穿腮洗虎面，偷漏圈拳取脑眼。
黑虎掏心连步肘，扑手双掌砍锁口。
硬崩实砸两腿撑，左右摔掠加硬崩。


罗汉拳拳谱（六路）

罗汉中门来一手，里磕外磕硬上弓。
援手蹲身贴臂靠，混将勾搂加缠封。
一打眉头和双睛，二打唇上和人中。
三打穿腮和耳门，四打背后和骨缝，
五打肋内和肺腑，六打撩阴和高骨。

罗汉上步取虎颈，打破碎骨压千斤。

闭住中门入单手，全要前手跟后手。

肘膝头捶靠身用，转身扭腰海底偷。

一步缠腰回身转，十字砍劈连步肘。

天生罗汉甚出奇，四面八方都能敌。


罗汉拳拳谱（七路）

罗汉能拨千夫杖，金鸡独立举在中。
翻身又加翻车捶，崩砸撩阴实不空。
勾搂同背连三掌，四封四闭肘贴胸。
铁门拴住双手扣，地膛又加野雀蹬。
黄龙翻身下底势，朝天一柱劈面迎。


罗汉拳拳谱（八路）

罗汉撑腿出单手，跳起又砸取锁口。
闭手入锤跟后手，十字演练连步肘。
转身一步下底势，左右盘叠翻身劈。
扑腿都是盘肘势，又锤过脑取当中。
盘起左边和右边，翻身起步斩顽敌。


罗汉拳拳谱（九路）

罗汉贴臂如膝肘，磕肘破肘投后手；
黑虎掏心连步肘，扑手偷手砍锁口。
连拳入捶窝里剖，双勾合手回旧道。
铁门靠闭即收臂，夜叉探海手扑地。
燕子双飞伏井底，困龙出蛰翻身起。


罗汉拳拳谱（十路）

罗汉翻身大劈叉，顺水投井盘腰胯。
无名大困十八困，莺驽燕雀连步滚。
野马上槽险又险，大鹏挺翅回身转。
青龙摆尾抄双手，缠封提步翻身闪。
缠拦偷手打对膝，纵步起手迎虎脸。


罗汉拳拳谱（十一路）

罗汉崩开参双臂，双手抱月心窝点，
纵步起首贯耳捶，提步刮面加通臂，
蹲身劈手入双掌，上下左右加螳螂，
迎面挑手双赶月，闪莲双勾扑封掌，
且加源拳换源拳，崩开辕门迎面闯。


罗汉拳拳谱（十二路）

罗汉底漏取虎眼，燕子叠翅黄龙翻。
勾通臂连环掌，滚漏沾炉脸对脸。
扑按护眼勾漏手，崩捶掌塞连步肘。
骑马顺步偷双掌，里磕外磕忙偷手。
出手眉头先下掌，左右摔撂劈面闯。

罗汉拳拳谱（十三路）

罗汉前手跟后手，扑手漏手叠双肘，
霸王拽弓入单手，提步双捆海底偷。
鹞子翻身双滚略，倒骑翻身回马走，
摇步左右燕子啄，入步头捶撩阴脚。
盘户援手忙起膝，底起双指取眼窝。


罗汉拳拳谱（十四路）

罗汉摆尾缠钩腿，偷手尖尖加崩撂，
白虎洗脸迎面罩，此手沾臂用大靠，
垫身长短十二跃，手法散乱忙铲跳，
若遇上方云游客，拳法无情方和乐妙，
闹滩夺秽高一啄，胜似他人称英豪。


罗汉拳拳谱（十五路）

罗汉用拨拍，前扫后用括，
上括下需挎，缠拦带回撂，
腰劈与上挂，左右使边括。
前来用扫拳，挑压走错魔，
上头用冲拳，下头用卷窝。

[RenDaHai]

During the 1600s the Tongbi Quan sets were revered.
During the 1500s the Hong Quan and Pao Quan sets were the most important and revered.
During the 1400s the Luohan sets were.

Right, the naming could be indicative of the time period the set found its way into that sect.

Which means sets with a lot of names are likely to be old.

[LFJ]

This is all so cool, thanks to all of you for doing so much hard work. It's come a long way and a few years have passed since we started looking at these things.

Yes. I think all the necessary information is out there. It's just scattered and different lineages have different bits. We have to discover and piece it together. Some times one bit of info clears up a whole sect. Slowly but surely.

[LFJ]

@SHemmati

Why do you think the series presented by Liu Zhenhai contains 'extensions' of these other sets (Xiaoluohan, Daluohan, Jintong), rather than these being common 'extracts' from the longer system that have become popular?

It would be similar to the Zhaoyangquan system taught by Shi Degen only having one set that he taught to the public in Dengfeng and that become popular, and now everyone has a version.

I think these other Luohan sets (that resemble Daluohan, Jintong, Zhang Shijie) are likely part of the extract that Shi Degen taught to the public and that has changed slightly between schools and has been extended for competition.

[Sal Canzonieri]

ok, now you have to compare to the long Luohan form in LZH's book, and to the short and long Luohan forms in Shaolin Encyclopedia.

[SHemmati]

the small and big luohans of the encyclopedia are the Dengfeng version of small and big luohan quan. the big luohan here also has the last part that is said to have recently been added to big luohan quan. they've tried to break big luohan quan into 2 parts and have added this 3rd part to extend it.