The Pole

[k gledhill]

Only if the other Pole/Weaponry man is trained to kill ya K!

Another example of how old 'sayings' have become 'doctrine' for teaching in the present day.

Ofcourse the IDEAL would be to only hear your Pole make contact with the opponents weapon only once, but to be honest I'd prefer to hear no sound at all except for the strike landing itself!

Another interpretation of the 'one sound' relates to the 'stiffness' of the Pole. Some more flexible sticks reverberate and, intentionally or not, will rebound back to hit the target 2 or 3 times. This is also to be avoided as just one 'touch' was considered enough. Again, just sayings...

why else would he be pointing a loaded pole at me ? [ you are not missing the idea , but not mentioning the fact that this is why we simply strike to kill ya in one move .... we dont know what the other guy can do , how good he is...how many 'notches' does he have on his pole ??? so treat them all with the same 'extreme prejudice' and respect , never underestimate your opponent , a dying man always has one last action....]

old sayings are usually misinterpreted , goes with the cantonese language ....one needs
the idea , not 'let me think ' SLAP !! etc...

[LoneTiger108]

old sayings are usually misinterpreted , goes with the cantonese language ....one needs
the idea , not 'let me think ' SLAP !! etc...

So, K, what's your interpretation of the Cantonese name for our Pole Set? Is it Six Point(s) & Half Pole or Six and a Half Point Pole??

Fortunately for me, like yourself I believe, I learnt my Pole from a 'hands-on' perspective and restrained from believeing that seventies movies contained 'original training' like Simple_easys poking holes in rice paper. Nice for accuracy, but as far as distinguishing my points from my half? Maybe in the context of angular and square hitting you would get these resuts, but still doesn't explain why our form carries such a name... and whether we have all just got its meaning 'Lost in Translation'!

[Vajramusti]

Several different explanations have been given for the name of the kwan. Name puzzles are good to play with but more important are the nature of the motions.
FWIW Austin Goh's staff work is not my cup of tea. I do not think treating the kwan like a quarter staff is a good idea developmentally. Of course in the heat of action- different adjustments are possible.

joy chaudhuri

[k gledhill]

I explained before ....it means, that we have 6 (full) movements, which come from the body to the target... the last one teaches you how one can make a strike, when your arms already extended..... a strike after a strike... we call it half movement, because we strike with extended arms.

[CFT]

LoneTiger108 - I've not been following in detail so my apologies. Are you are saying there are 2 separate pole/staff sets? The half-pole set used like a quarterstaff as seen in sifu Austin Goh's videos, and then the more "normal" 6-1/2 point pole set? Do you have a half-point movement in the latter?

Surely they are actually different weapons? The 6-1/2 point pole is trained using a long tapered pole, whereas your half-pole looks like it is uniform in cross-section and much shorter.

[LoneTiger108]

First off CFT, yes I am saying that there are two distictly different Pole forms I have seen in Wing Chun. That which I've seen from the Ip Family, and that I have seen from the Lee Family. Both are 'totally different' in look, but I do believe they are portraying the same concepts. Lee Shing, however, preferred more traditional stick plays to help new students learn prior to the heavier pole being introduced.

I personally have practiced with both. Stick fighting isn't the same as pole fighting as preferences tend to vary on 'power generation' to start with. I also have to point out that the Sum Nung Set I posted in this thread is not 'mine' or Lee Shings, and I'm sure someone from this family can enlighten us as to 'why' this set was created. On reflection, Sum Nungs Pole Set is also sligtly different from Lees & Ips.

Before I go into an explanation, I have to ask a question:

How many of us understand the basic 'yum yeurng' (yin yang) concept passed through to us all in our Pole 'grip'?

One palm facing up, the other down (which one depends on your Sifu lol!) How we tend to distingush the 'half set' from the 'point set' is that the half pole tends to use the same hands, ie both palms facing down. It is only within Lee Shings pole that I have seen the practitioner then hold the pole in the middle, utilising both ends for close quarters more so than the points, where we tend to stay at one end of the pole using our longest ranges.

However, I have seen the famous Wong Shun Leung Pole, and they also have a set where both palms face downwards, albeit they stay at one end of the pole. I believe that he may have been the only Ip Family student who taught this, but as ever I am open to others coming forward...

Another 'saying' I've heard numerous times in the Lee Family is this:

"Without the stick, the father of all weapons, a pole is of no use."

[LoneTiger108]

A few clips of my Sifus daughters and his elder students at Seni'01 can be found here:

http://www.junmo.co.uk/index.php?opt...=55&Itemid=107

Note that all of the 'stick' clips are examples of Lee Shings Stick Plays, which are obviously not to be confused with standard 6 Point & Half Pole sets.

I will try to answer questions anyone may have, or you can always contact Jun Mo directly through the site.

[Liddel]

How many of us understand the basic 'yum yeurng' (yin yang) concept passed through to us all in our Pole 'grip'?

Id hope one would understand the Ying Yang relationship from the hand form which would then lead into the pole....despite the practical differences.

But for me in a nutshell - one hand drives while the other steers.
The relationship is important for me because if both hands are not used in unity and you dont understand the Ying Yang relationship you can stiffle your own actions.

I.E The lead hand can block the energy both hands should be sending down then pole. etc

However, I have seen the famous Wong Shun Leung Pole, and they also have a set where both palms face downwards, albeit they stay at one end of the pole. I believe that he may have been the only Ip Family student who taught this, but as ever I am open to others coming forward...

This is the same for me. Come from Lok Yiu. So perhaps WSL wasnt the only one.

Having our palms both facing down (or 'towards' the ground, meaning not facing straight down) makes it possible for us to 'liven' up the pole. Its enables the user to again, to send his force down the pole making the tip move.

This relationship of the palms facing the pole, lines up your bodies power lines (similar to power lines in a punch) with the pole. A different direction of the palms with regard to the pole and you lessen and at certain angles loose the ability to move the pole tip IME.

This leands itself to another point made earlier...about the one touch idea.

For me when putting the pole out if i have applied the right energy and the tip moves apon contact this creates many tiny hits (or at least more than one).

I would make a piont that this is NOT due to using a pole made from light wood - our pole is a heavy hard wood, so training right in the Arrow horse and Dan Kwan drills early on is crucial to developing good power to put into the pole.

This is why people with the same style as what ive been taught would refer to the BJD as a hand gun and the LDBK as machine gun - because of the mulitiple hits and power you can release with the pole.

Crude analogy but it gets the point across IMO.

DREW