Tru-2-Form Sparring

[MightyB]

I think we're mostly in agreement. I like the notion of do something / make your own if it doesn't exist (although I really like the rules for sport jiu jitsu the most and if I were to try to promote something or make my own event, that'd be it) -

This is why I'm also "defending" this guy a bit. He doesn't like what he's seeing in TCMA, and he's trying to do something about it. It's not how I'd like to see it being done, but he's doing something which he believes in will work. That's more than I'm doing and it's more than most will ever do. That's all I'm saying.

[lkfmdc]

- I think our "disagreement" if we truly have one, is that I still have belief in TCMA... and maybe that's misguided - I don't know.

It depends upon what you think TCMA IS

read some recent posts in the michael matsuda thread for example

[bawang]

This is why I'm also "defending" this guy a bit. He doesn't like what he's seeing in TCMA, and he's trying to do something about it.

no, hes a sociopath thats saying what people want to hear , in order to justify extreme deviant and perverse behaviour.

this abominable orgy of evil set back kung fu for at least 40 years

[ginosifu]

Dave / MightyB

You both have some valid points.

Back in the 70's before sparring gear was invented, people fought with no safety gear. You could tell the styles by how they fought. The Kun Tao guys had their own flavor, Shaolin guys had their own flare, hung kuen looked like hung kuen etc.

Part of the problem today is that kung fu practitioners don't train like they use too. Hard core fighting all the time, 5-6 days a week was the norm back then. Nowadays, your average commercial student trains 2-3 times a week and maybe..... maybe spars a couple of times per month.

There is definately a place for San Shou / San Da, but then their should be place for kung fu fighting. There use to be no safety gear... so kung fu was always played using techniques of the given style.

This is my own personal opinion: If San Shou / San Da is the only thing that really works then hundreds of years ago they would have created a San Shou system for all of China and everyone would be using it. If everyone used only San Shou style techniques like round kicks, straight jabs, reverse punches (supposedly the only stuff that works in reality) etc., then why do we see so many varied techniques and styles? If all these different styles and techniques never really worked, then why have they flourished for hundreds of years?

ginosifu

[bawang]

If all these different styles and techniques never really worked, then why have they flourished for hundreds of years?

to scam money from people

[lkfmdc]

If San Shou / San Da is the only thing that really works then hundreds of years ago they would have created a San Shou system for all of China and everyone would be using it.

back when everyone actually WAS fighting, there was not as much variation, not as many "flowery" technique and not as much talk about chi and secrets

this isn't a theory, it is historically verifiable

in the 1920's, 1930's and then again in the 1950's when the army needed to find what actually worked, they always came back to what we know today as sanshou/san da

In the 1990's when there was an active fighting circuit in sanshou, you have 7 or 8 different teams, all different backgrounds and coaches, yet so many similarities

IE there is only what works and what doesn't

stuff like tru-2-form always says "why doesn't fighting look THIS way" and the answer is because fighting never looks that way

[lkfmdc]

If all these different styles and techniques never really worked, then why have they flourished for hundreds of years?

ginosifu

they didn't exist for hundreds of years. That's part of the fantasy

[GeneChing]

I'm curious about the rules for Tru-2-Form. Would I be allowed to show up totally drunk and do drunken style? I used to practice a drunken style form and I still practice drunken style applications. You've all read my last drunken article, yes?

In all honesty, I think the critical stance that the forum is taking on Tru-2-Form is stereotypically misguided. Instead of talking smack here, just enter the next Tru-2-Form match and clean up with Sanda. Or Drunken Style. Or whatever. It's just like MMA, except totally opposite.

Actually, I think you could make a pretty strong case for Xingyi in this arena. You could start with some traditional Xingyi opening and then just blast your opponent with bengquan.

[lkfmdc]

With all due respect Gene, I think your post here is stereotypically misguided

Instead of talking smack here, just enter the next Tru-2-Form match and clean up with Sanda.

So it is perfectly 100% legal to punch someone straight in the face full power? Doesn't appear that way from the videos?

How about an overhand, you know, the classic kahp choih?

What about full force leg kicks?

How can I "clean up" with San da/Lama/Choy Lay Fut/Hung Ga if I can't actually use the techniques?

Actually, I think you could make a pretty strong case for Xingyi in this arena. You could start with some traditional Xingyi opening and then just blast your opponent with bengquan.

Can you really "blast" them?

This certainly did not look like contact fighting

[lkfmdc]

oh, you were just being funny, right?

[GeneChing]

You honestly think that your San da/Lama/Choy Lay Fut/Hung Ga people couldn't use techniques that were a little lighter and still not clean up?

And yes, of course I was being funny. This is our forum. Why so serious?

[Ray Pina]

We often resort to what's easiest for us to do right now, and if given the choice - we'd never grow. There was a reason why these movements were developed - Again, who in Judo would attempt Hane Goshi if they weren't forced to try it sometime in friendly sparring? Nobody - it's a tough throw, yet it's effective.

I agree one has to work to develop something. I had a tendency to scramble so my coach forced me to play nothing but guard -- if I got out of guard had to restart -- for a month... I'm grateful for that. I enjoy guard now.

Hane Goshi is alive and well. It shows itself at least once or twice a week in free play at my gym. Working on something difficult is different than forcing the reconstruction of something in a way we suppose it was, could or should be.

If it works, it would be alive. There will always be need to work, train, modify maybe even improve. But if we're at the point no one knows what they he11 they're doing that they're resulting to this.... just pack it in .... step.

Those guys are going to save Kung Fu From what

[lkfmdc]

And yes, of course I was being funny. This is our forum. Why so serious?

the internet is serious business Gene, don't you know that?

[YouKnowWho]

Lions' roar, Lama Pai, Hop Ga, Pak Hok, white crane, crane style, kung fu, whatever the hell you want to call it IT DOES NOT MATTER

One of the major principles in TCMA is to "enter through the leak". You attack whatever that your opponent opens for you. When your opponent

- switches sides in the middle of the fight, if your back leg roundhouse kick does not shot out at his belly,
- hook punches at you head, if you are not dodging under his punch and counter an upper cut,

you are not following "enter through the leak" principle. If you do, you will fight like a kickboxer even if you have never trained your "roundhouse" and "upper cut" in your life. Those 2 moves are just natural body respond which has nothing to do with style.

After you have knocked your opponent down, you will have all the time in the word to perform your "white crane flap wings" to prove that you are a Taiji master, or "walk in circle" to prove that you are a Bagua master.

Instead of talking smack here, just enter the next Tru-2-Form match and clean up with Sanda.

I don't think it makes sense to go backward. It's like to ask a Judo master to compete in Taiji push hands thournament. How much can he get out of it?

- honor?
- experience?

I believe the answer is "neither".

[David Jamieson]

After you have knocked your opponent down, you will have all the time in the word to perform your "white crane flap wings" to prove that you are a Taiji master, or "walk in circle" to prove that you are a Bagua master.

Flying through the air like an effin monkey gets you disqualified however.