Having not put your time standing, you would not no what evidence is anyway.Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown
But I can see the evidence. That's where the difference comes in.
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Having not put your time standing, you would not no what evidence is anyway.
But I can see the evidence. That's where the difference comes in.
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Aw yes! The magic of standing! Only true standers know the magic of standing! But you must stand correctlly or your standing is not standing and you will not know the magic!
Such is the stuff that dreams are made!
The world needs dreamers who fancy they have secret knowlledge that only the special people who do the magic standing will know.....or not. But they exist just the same! Everyone wants to feel they are special, some people develop useful skills, while others stand and think themselves skilled.
Ha! Great vid. I used to do that very same thing when I was a kid!
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What does two guys wrestling have to do with internal.?
Anyway getting close to an internal should not matter, because you are on the outside still, unless you can get inside him. Why does the guy want to shake you off ?., unless that is the game you are playing, and if it was the game, I don't think shaking off is a good use of energy.
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In a fight what is important is winning, not whether one fancies himself internal or external. It is also immaterial how much energy one uses as long as one does not kill himself in the winning!
Funny thing about energy, it is replenishable and there is usually plenty to spare even when one thinks he has no more to expend!
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If you can't apply your "internal" skill in wrestling, your "internal" skill will be useless. In the real world, it's not where you want to be. It's where your opponent wants you to be.
What's good is "internal" to you if it can't help you in "combat"?
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-25-2011 at 03:32 PM.
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You can use it anyway you want, so is one of the wrestlers supposed to be using internal?, only the participant's will be able know that, video looks like external to me, but, then again with all that movement, I would guess internal was not used.
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Who said internal is not used for combat?, that is probably one of the reasons why it was developed, to counter all the external muscle heads, without being a muscle head, or the smaller to defeat the larger.
Plus all the health benefits that go along with internal practice.
What would you rather have, a bank account that looses money, or one that keeps growing as you get older?.
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The following "internal" principles are used in that clip:
- Sung,
- sink,
- yield,
- sticky,
- follow,
- borrow force,
- borrow your opponent's rooting.
Can any "internal" guy be able to do any different from this?
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I prefer not to talk about "health" and "self-cultivation" in this thread. If we want to talk about it, I have to say that "external" gives me more "health" benefit than "internal".
I do:
- sit up so I don't have fat belly.
- push up and weight so my muscle is firm,
- run 4 miles 3 times a week so my lung and heart function well.
- stretch so I'm flexibility.
- 13 Tai Bo so my balance is good.
- ...
I truly don't see that "internal" can help me any more than "external". Again, I'm speaking from my personal experience since I learned Taiji when I was 7 years old. That was almost 60 years ago.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-25-2011 at 05:36 PM.
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These are all being done at body level, their are higher levels of application.
So, yes your level can be higher.
If you are not familiar with body level, that would be another subject.
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The following statement was quoted from the Chang style Taiji founder:
"It's high level if you can apply your skill in combat, it's low level otherwise."
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-25-2011 at 05:50 PM.
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Taijiquan guy pushing hands with retired Sumo champion. The thing that I think is impressive is that the Taijiquan guy is giving away more weight than he himself weighs! I find this impressive if for no other reason than that.Here is another thing to try to demonstrate the fantasy of internal:
If internal power is REAL, use it against a 280# Sumo Wrestler or a Pro NFL Lineman. Size should not matter if one is using REAL internal power! I prefer to see your proof demonstrated against the Sumo Wrestler since he has more experience using Bio-Mechanics in a martial atmosphere.
Demos for internal power are always used against the inexperience, and students, but if it can work in real life it can work against an experienced Sumo Wrestler.
Good Luck!
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By hip throwing someone who was already going that way, no one could say you did a hip throw at all. Externally, you had the appearance of a hip throw, but internally you were just slagging off, and that's what did the hip throw, "I'd catch you, but no."
I think a lot of throws are just getting out of the way. This is knowing how to get out of the way, reading what the way is, etc. Internal processes as the key to managing the external processes, like judo does, or bjj on the ground, or tkd in selecting a mall location. All the good styles are internal, because they do not see their applications as enforced upon reality, but in response to a reality that you train yourself to see and respond to, the sight and the response learned makes someone able to use the technique, the technique does not do the same.
That said, if the structures adopted lead naturally, and you don't fight this tendency when pressure is applied, but use it naturally, then it's neither your internal motion or your external that defines that exchange, but the opponent's decisions and their efficiency or inefficiency in applying it, if you are drawing them into something, it is them who acts externally.
Either way, what comes to be is not defined by your external structure, your internal processes, or your opponent's, but the combination. If you are part of that, instead of being part of your technique, then even as you do a technique, you are internal to the fight, while the technique is external.
There is no separation between internal and external. Functional fighting kung fu all looks suspiciously "internal", while dancing and empty form all looks "external".
Kung fu that looks fancy in form looks normal in usage.
A 700 lbs. female jockey could kill a featherweight ufc fighter.
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I've mentioned this before, but I do an internal form, and I've seen footage of an important individual in our line doing a round kick in his form, and did so as well for a long time.
The closest variant I have seen is muay thai, but the waist work is different in the version as done. This is a description of the external shape, but the internal rationale is sound, there is a dropping initially that fools the eye and leads the opponent to expect something other than a round kick, the dropping forward scoops and rises as the kick is executed. Nothing magical. Magical explanations of normal things are not internal.
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What bother me the most is "internal" guys refuse to discuss certain combat areas such as "hip throw".
The
- traditional way of doing "hip throw" is to use your hip to strike on your opponent's belly.
- modern way of doing "hip throw" is to use your arm to lift up your opponent's waist.
You then make his feet to come off the ground, and pull him over your head.
I just don't see "internal" can help to improve this function in either cases. Besides, the IMA guys don't even train "hip strike" and "waist lift" at all.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-25-2011 at 09:20 PM.
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