New WingChunKwoon site is live.

[Graham H]

I agree.... kinda. I saw this a lot in Xing Yi, where the stance requirements were very strict. When you saw very skilled people performing it looked as though they weren't always sticking to those requirements, but this is misleading. From years and years of stance training they could activate the requirements even if not in outward appearance. It was ingrained in what they did. But of course, to get to that level you need a great deal of training.

Wing Chun is a simple system. Having to reach high levels set by gradings and such in order to be proficient is nonsense. Good for people wallets though.

I hear what you're saying - though the YKS Wing Chun doesn't seem to me to have really wide and deep stances, more mid-to-narrow stances that are deep (very sunk, very strong knee-clamping - for want of a better expression). For boxers, well, boxers need a stance and method of moving that works well for boxing.

I didn't say it had wide stances but the very sunk strong knee clamping idea is not good IMO

Add in grappling and the stance and movement might be different, adding in kicking and kneeing and again the stance and movement might be different. Add in a weapon... etc, etc.

Of course movement varies but the stance should be natural. You wouldn't run the 100 meters sat on your backside.

Regarding Bruce Lee.... well, he had his own way Right or wrong... Enter the Dragon is still Kung-Fu-Movie-Cool.

Yes he did have his own way but his views on some MA systems and their unnatural behavior was justified.

In order to maximize our potential there is a certain amount of criteria required to function in a fight. We are not animals that have wings, 4 legs, fangs and talons so a lot of Kung Fu systems are full of nonsense based on animal behavior. I like Ving Tsun because its natural for human beings although the stupid human beings have destroyed it

[BPWT]

Wing Chun is a simple system. Having to reach high levels set by gradings and such in order to be proficient is nonsense. Good for people wallets though.

Oh, nothing to do with gradings, regarding XingYi. Just a very deep system. A system like that can't be learned in-depth quickly. You have to process through the system, building on various methods. Takes a long time to be able to do this naturally, as second nature.

For Wing Chun/Wing Tsun... I don't think it is too simple a system. Simple in the sense that there's only three open-hand forms, only two weapons to learn (from Yip Man lineage), etc, but not a simple system. Honestly, I think it is much like most other martial arts... there is a lot going on. Xingyi is based on just five fists - but they are very, very detailed. You can learn to use WingTsun fairly quickly, but IMO there is also a lot of info/technology within the system.

In order to maximize our potential there is a certain amount of criteria required to function in a fight. We are not animals that have wings, 4 legs, fangs and talons so a lot of Kung Fu systems are full of nonsense based on animal behavior.

For sure. But to mention XingYi (again, LOL) the animal forms they have are not really about mimicking the animal 'physically', it is more about attributes and mindset. E.g. the hawk form is not about flapping your arms like a bird flaps its wings , but about Xingyi movements and body methods that have a swooping, high-to-low function, or a tearing type action.

I like Ving Tsun because its natural for human beings although the stupid human beings have destroyed it

Don't worry, one day robots and zombies will rule the world. Then the real WC/WT/VT will be restored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64

[Graham H]

For Wing Chun/Wing Tsun... I don't think it is too simple a system. Simple in the sense that there's only three open-hand forms, only two weapons to learn (from Yip Man lineage), etc, but not a simple system. Honestly, I think it is much like most other martial arts... there is a lot going on. Xingyi is based on just five fists - but they are very, very detailed. You can learn to use WingTsun fairly quickly, but IMO there is also a lot of info/technology within the system.

I will have to disagree on that one. Ving Tsun is very simple. It's made up a very few fundamental concepts. The problem is that many lineages have filled the system up with fighting applications. Another big problem is how one thinks. It may seem complicated to some and indeed those who do not understand over complicate things. Ving Tsun can be difficult to teach if the student can't think properly, doesn't train hard and consistently and doesn't have the right amount of contact with their Teacher.

Don't worry, one day robots and zombies will rule the world. Then the real WC/WT/VT will be restored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64

Ha! I agree FOC are funny guys.

[BPWT]

I will have to disagree on that one. Ving Tsun is very simple. It's made up a very few fundamental concepts. The problem is that many lineages have filled the system up with fighting applications. Another big problem is how one thinks. It may seem complicated to some and indeed those who do not understand over complicate things. Ving Tsun can be difficult to teach if the student can't think properly, doesn't train hard and consistently and doesn't have the right amount of contact with their Teacher.

That might be the heart of it. VT is simple. WT has detail

Actually, I joke, but the more I read on the forum from you and Kevin, et al, and the more I see the clips from PB lineage, the more I think two things:

1. PB's training is good, honest, VT training and by and large I like the look of it
2. It is a kinda stripped down system - with a heavy focus on certain drills and methods, trained a lot so that the practitioners develop good, solid skills. Maybe not as detailed as other Yip Man lineages, but good stuff.

I don't mean point number 2 as a slight or attack. I mean that his a big emphasis on the basics, and not so much emphasis on more detailed elements. It's not a bad thing, IMO, and it fits with the needs of the user, so to speak.

Ha! I agree FOC are funny guys.

Yeah, I love these guys. This one is for Poulperadieux Foux Da Fa Fa....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5hrUGFhsXo

[Graham H]

I see WSL's ideas as simple and functional. I see LT's WT ideas as complicated

So we have different thinking. We already established that.

[Graham H]

2. It is a kinda stripped down system -

Maybe it was this way before your Sigung got his hands on it! Just maybe

[BPWT]

Maybe it was this way before your Sigung got his hands on it! Just maybe

Sure, maybe.

Or maybe... Yip Man gave WSL what WSL wanted...

Simple VT. Just something to use to fight the other teenagers on the rooftops

And then WSL passed on the same thing to PB.



But yes - we have different methods. Live and let live.

[Graham H]

Sure, maybe.

Or maybe... Yip Man gave WSL what WSL wanted...

Simple VT. Just something to use to fight the other teenagers on the rooftops

And then WSL passed on the same thing to PB.



But yes - we have different methods. Live and let live.

............and we go round and around and around and around..............

[BPWT]

Foux du Fafa... Voila – le conversation dans le parc

[anerlich]

I have noticed a tendency by students in maybe their second year of training really trying to drive that stance as deep as possible, way beyond any reasonable possibility of effective function.

"My stance is really hard to hold and really uncomfortable, so I must be training HARD!"

Not right IMO.

"In all forms of strategy, it is necessary to maintain the combat stance in everyday life and to make your everyday stance your combat stance...whether you move fast or slow, with large or small steps, your feet must always move as in normal walking..." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings

Of course Musashi isn't PB or WSL or their anointed spokesperson (like GH & KG), but even so his opinion probably still counts for something.

[Vajramusti]

"In all forms of strategy, it is necessary to maintain the combat stance in everyday life and to make your everyday stance your combat stance...whether you move fast or slow, with large or small steps, your feet must always move as in normal walking..." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings

Of course Musashi isn't PB or WSL or their anointed spokesperson (like GH & KG), but even so his opinion probably still counts for something.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent quote.

[k gledhill]

Sure, maybe.

Or maybe... Yip Man gave WSL what WSL wanted...

Simple VT. Just something to use to fight the other teenagers on the rooftops

And then WSL passed on the same thing to PB.



But yes - we have different methods. Live and let live.

Or maybe LT invented crap to compensate for the obvious lack of understanding he shows. : ) : ): ) : )

[GlennR]

We are not all attracted to the same woman!

Youre attracted to woman?!?!

[GlennR]

]In SLT YJKYM is a training stance not a fighting stance. We encourage the stance to be a little wider and deeper to put more stress on the legs during the form. The stance during sparring is dependent on the practitioner. We use a stance that is natural so we can maintain good structure and still be mobile and keep good balance. There is no set position albeit the feet must be turned in, the knees in and the waist pushed forward to bring the upper and lower parts of the body together. This allows us to move as one complete unit. Varying heights and limb lengths dictate the stance position. We don't encourage unnatural positions once the stance has been developed. It's illogical.

You could argue that its illogical to not train in the stance you are going to fight in.

Some systems of Wing Chun encourage some very strange stances which reduce the ability to move properly, make quick adjustments and react without making big changes in position.

Depends what thwey are trying to achieve.

Our stance is more akin to a Boxers stance rather than the likes of YKSWC which looks like they have been in a car crash.

IMO its a range thing. The YKSWC guys seem to like to fight in a very close range, the WSL guys a bit further out and the TWC guys a little further out again from what ive seen/worked with.

And FWIW there's different stances in boxing depending on you "style" of boxing, it all depends on how you want to get the job done.
Its no different amongst the different lines of WC, just that the WC/VT/WT guys seem to be obsessed with their way being THE way.

[Graham H]

Youre attracted to woman?!?!

Yes!....and you of course.