Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=shen ku;900716]but really,, does any have an idea what the other form at the spring seminar is going to be?[/QUOTE

It will be another weapons form....this time related to the Meteor Fist Yang side....no specifics yet....EML will know first...as soon as he announces it I will let everybody know.
BQ

[Baqualin]

I was reading the book "The weapons and fighting arts of indonesia" when I found something very interesting.
This book was first published in 1972. On page 80 there is this particular paragraph that I really noticed. It says "Octogenarian Djie Siauw Foe of Semarang in central Java is a Kuntao master teacher, one of the last of the old breed."
Now Master Hiang and Master Sin both mention that a master named Je shiao fu was a teacher at the school where they studied. This may substantiate that alot of the core material is legit.

Comments please

Mas Judt may have an insight to this...if he reads this post I'm sure he will respond.
BQ

[bodhi warrior]

Mas Judt may have an insight to this...if he reads this post I'm sure he will respond.
BQ

I hope so. Je Shiao Fu, according to Master Sin's DVD, is the originator of alot of the lower belt material.

[Judge Pen]

He is also referenced on Master Hsiang's site.

http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaol.../history2.html

[shen ku]

any ideas on what the weapon will be? one we have already or something new?

[Baqualin]

any ideas on what the weapon will be? one we have already or something new?

If you mean new weapons form, yes....if you mean new weapon, I don't know yet.
BQ

[shen ku]

i meant new weapon,, i always enjoy something different,,, but something new with one i already have will be great also

[achien]

Chi Hsiao Foo / Je Siau Fu was a respectful Shandong kungfu teacher who was very prominent warrior in Indonesia. Some of his student are very well known in Jakarta or Bandung.
Chi Hsio Foo only accepted a little number of student who really taught directly by him. If GM Sin The was his student, i think the northern tang lang system was from him. I have heard that 10 teachers were the teacher of their school.

Best Regards,

Achien (Indonesia)

[Baqualin]

Chi Hsiao Foo / Je Siau Fu was a respectful Shandong kungfu teacher who was very prominent warrior in Indonesia. Some of his student are very well known in Jakarta or Bandung.
Chi Hsio Foo only accepted a little number of student who really taught directly by him. If GM Sin The was his student, i think the northern tang lang system was from him. I have heard that 10 teachers were the teacher of their school.

Best Regards,

Achien (Indonesia)

Welcome Achien
Thanks for the info....if you have any further information regarding the old school in Indo. & GM Ie I'm sure everyone on here would love to hear about it. Also do you know much about the internal systems taught in the area.
Best to You!!!
BQ

[bodhi warrior]

Chi Hsiao Foo / Je Siau Fu was a respectful Shandong kungfu teacher who was very prominent warrior in Indonesia. Some of his student are very well known in Jakarta or Bandung.
Chi Hsio Foo only accepted a little number of student who really taught directly by him. If GM Sin The was his student, i think the northern tang lang system was from him. I have heard that 10 teachers were the teacher of their school.

Best Regards,

Achien (Indonesia)

The only teachers I'm aware of are ie chang ming, jie shiao fu, liu su peng, te tju, qui kwong. The name of the school as I understand it was chung yen wu shu shao.
Any info you can provide on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

[peace&love]

I removed myself from SD around a month ago and wanted to make some observations to see if my experiences were the norm or unusual with SD schools. I do not want this to become a slamfest though because SD discussions unfortunately lead to that at times. I'm honestly curious. When I first started SD, there were three instructors. This is one of the reasons I chose SD at the time because my previous school closed down due to only having one teacher who had to leave. They were all different at SD, but all had valuable strengths. First one left due to family issues and outstanding weapons training was lost. Then another started to come and go and classes began to get cancelled and then organization and attitudes started to get bad from other students. It was a small school to begin with, but many student started to leave. The remaining head instructor started to show up late to class and leave me to work with new potential students. This was not a position I wanted to be placed in and I felt it inappropriate. These issues are probably just this particular schools situation.

I found that SD had a super heavy concentration on forms and even upper level sashes did not do well during sparring. Their sparring style seemed very TKD to me with a lot of side kicks and roundhouses. The head sifu also has a black belt in TKD and was training in a different system the same time he as he was teaching us. This could be the reason why this was the case with the students who had been there longer than me. Anyway, my previous experience in Southern styles gave me very good hand technique experiences, and I found that I could simply move past the kicks and go in for hand exchanges which always led to me doing quite well against my sparring partner. Unfortunately, I did not have too many sparring experience with SD because we spent so much time on forms. I found that the upper level sashes were not use to contact and would sort of "freak out" if there was contact. From other sources, I have been made aware that some SD schools do well with sparring, but I have only what was said and not seen.

Also, there is the lineage issue that comes up repeatedly. This was not a huge issue for me. Over time, and especially with the cultural revolution, accurate Chinese history in regards to the martial arts is a lot of legend even with historic figures like Wong Fei Hung. There is a lot of hearsay out there on a number of lineages. I have found that many SD practitioners take the lineage as absolute truth. Most of these folks, including one of the teachers I had, fell into this category. I have noticed that all the ones I have been aware of had direct contact with Sin The at some point in their training so he must be a very charasmatic individual I assume. On the other hand, there seems to be an equal number of SD practitioners who think that it is total bunk or only has a grain of truth and are okay with that. They seem to keep a low profile though.

Overall, the positives of my SD training was the internal arts and the I Chings as well as the conditioning. Also, the weapons forms were rewarding and challeging. On the negative side, I found the open had forms were not that challenging and the sparring skills of most SD practitioners I saw and sparred against to be lacking.

Once again, please fellow forum members, don't make this a slamfest. I just want to hear about SD in terms of what people have actually experienced themselves, and have not heard from others. As I mentioned before, I am curious if my experiences with SD are isolated with a particular school or are widespread throughout the organization. Thanks to all for your time.

[Lamassu]

I found that SD had a super heavy concentration on forms and even upper level sashes did not do well during sparring. Their sparring style seemed very TKD to me with a lot of side kicks and roundhouses.

I left SD almost 4 years ago, and looking back, I also noticed the focus on forms, but considering the amount being taught that's to be expected. I will say that 900 (or however many), is too many, at least for me. I still practice about 10 of the thirty some odd forms I was taught, and only those that are particularly appealing to me and practical. A lot of the forms are uber simple and not really worth learning because the lessons hidden are also in other forms taught later. I would often get frustrated doing a form over and over again at the kwoon and just think to myself "Hell I could be drilling these forms at home, why did I come here?" The sparring is a lot like TKD, and I think the easiest way to remedy that is if SD adopted San Shou. Teach the students some chinese boxing which will help them link the theory of the form with the practical application of sparring. As it is, 4 or 5 different techniques defined in forms translate to the one same thing on the matt: sidekick.

Also, there is the lineage issue that comes up repeatedly. This was not a huge issue for me. Over time, and especially with the cultural revolution, accurate Chinese history in regards to the martial arts is a lot of legend even with historic figures like Wong Fei Hung. There is a lot of hearsay out there on a number of lineages. I have found that many SD practitioners take the lineage as absolute truth. Most of these folks, including one of the teachers I had, fell into this category. I have noticed that all the ones I have been aware of had direct contact with Sin The at some point in their training so he must be a very charasmatic individual I assume. On the other hand, there seems to be an equal number of SD practitioners who think that it is total bunk or only has a grain of truth and are okay with that. They seem to keep a low profile though.

I never really was all that concerned about the lineage, I treated SD the same way I treated Texas State: a place to learn. It's history is irrelevant to me.

Overall, the positives of my SD training was the internal arts and the I Chings as well as the conditioning. Also, the weapons forms were rewarding and challeging. On the negative side, I found the open had forms were not that challenging and the sparring skills of most SD practitioners I saw and sparred against to be lacking.

SD definetly gave me an appreciation for the internal arts and Chi Kung, I still practice all the Tai Chi and Pakua that I learned before I moved, and I get a lot of fulfillment and satisfaction from keeping them fresh.

The kwoons I attended in North Austin and in San Marcos, TX were very professional, and the instructors were top notch that really gave a d@mn about the development of their students as well as the preservation of their art. There are elements that I have issues with, but no kwoon is perfect and you have to be able to adapt yourself, in order to learn. Personally, I always hated putting on the gi, and the drills were too karate like. Overall, I enjoyed my time with SD, but yeah you gotta take certain things with a grain of salt like most kwoons here in the U.S. Just my opinion.

[kwaichang]

Some use lineage as a place to make a point while what we learn is more important than who taught it. KC

[Baqualin]

I removed myself from SD around a month ago and wanted to make some observations to see if my experiences were the norm or unusual with SD schools. I do not want this to become a slamfest though because SD discussions unfortunately lead to that at times. I'm honestly curious. When I first started SD, there were three instructors. This is one of the reasons I chose SD at the time because my previous school closed down due to only having one teacher who had to leave. They were all different at SD, but all had valuable strengths. First one left due to family issues and outstanding weapons training was lost. Then another started to come and go and classes began to get cancelled and then organization and attitudes started to get bad from other students. It was a small school to begin with, but many student started to leave. The remaining head instructor started to show up late to class and leave me to work with new potential students. This was not a position I wanted to be placed in and I felt it inappropriate. These issues are probably just this particular schools situation.

I found that SD had a super heavy concentration on forms and even upper level sashes did not do well during sparring. Their sparring style seemed very TKD to me with a lot of side kicks and roundhouses. The head sifu also has a black belt in TKD and was training in a different system the same time he as he was teaching us. This could be the reason why this was the case with the students who had been there longer than me. Anyway, my previous experience in Southern styles gave me very good hand technique experiences, and I found that I could simply move past the kicks and go in for hand exchanges which always led to me doing quite well against my sparring partner. Unfortunately, I did not have too many sparring experience with SD because we spent so much time on forms. I found that the upper level sashes were not use to contact and would sort of "freak out" if there was contact. From other sources, I have been made aware that some SD schools do well with sparring, but I have only what was said and not seen.

Also, there is the lineage issue that comes up repeatedly. This was not a huge issue for me. Over time, and especially with the cultural revolution, accurate Chinese history in regards to the martial arts is a lot of legend even with historic figures like Wong Fei Hung. There is a lot of hearsay out there on a number of lineages. I have found that many SD practitioners take the lineage as absolute truth. Most of these folks, including one of the teachers I had, fell into this category. I have noticed that all the ones I have been aware of had direct contact with Sin The at some point in their training so he must be a very charasmatic individual I assume. On the other hand, there seems to be an equal number of SD practitioners who think that it is total bunk or only has a grain of truth and are okay with that. They seem to keep a low profile though.

Overall, the positives of my SD training was the internal arts and the I Chings as well as the conditioning. Also, the weapons forms were rewarding and challeging. On the negative side, I found the open had forms were not that challenging and the sparring skills of most SD practitioners I saw and sparred against to be lacking.

Once again, please fellow forum members, don't make this a slamfest. I just want to hear about SD in terms of what people have actually experienced themselves, and have not heard from others. As I mentioned before, I am curious if my experiences with SD are isolated with a particular school or are widespread throughout the organization. Thanks to all for your time.

Hey P&L,
Every school is different......there are no SD franchises, so not alot of oversite among the schools...they do pretty much their own thing and either make it or flop. I'm not saying this is a good thing, just the way it is.
It's hard for me to comment since I'm with GMS's original school and things are different here....plus I only study Internal now......I can say no one here is afraid of contact....I've experienced quite a few bruised ribs from the upper levels in sparring classes and the black belt classes generally end with everybody against everbody for a few minutes, just to knock the dust off. I've seen the same in alot of the other Ky schools and some of M. Mullins schools also. Your always limited by your teachers ability and what he actually knows.
BQ

[achien]

achien

Do you know of any members of the White Lotus Society in Bandung?
or of a Martial Arts Instructor there by the name of Tjie Tiong?

Hi,

Do you mean White Lotus Wushu School that leaded by Yan De Xiu (Bpk. Tatang Budi Suryana) at Bandung???
Do you mean Lim Djie Tiong who is a student of Chi Hsiao Foo???

I know both of them eventhough i never meet them, their student is my friend. Btw, i don't want to get involved with any of shaolin do's matters because i am not a student of sd and i think i don't have any rights to decide what is right and wrong in SD (i really respect all of practicioners in SD and i think a debates is normal in kungfu). I know that GM Liu Su Peng is my elder master, and i am actually have a relation with SD in the lineage.

Hopefully i can give the information.


Thank you

Best Regards,

Achien