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Thread: Wing chun kuen What happen in 1855

  1. #1

    Wing chun kuen What happen in 1855

    So, today we have data to see what extremely likely to happen in 1850 wing Chun kuen evolution.


    1. 1855 is the years Lee Man Mau lead his army toward kwang Xi and the burning of fine jade in canton.

    2. Prio to 1855, wing Chun is taugh in a one set system. Where we know, both the Wong wah Bo line and the yik kam line inherited them. One can read the Wong wah Bo inheritance of one set system from Leung Jan teaching.


    3. At 1855, lee man mau and his hung mun army when to kwan Xi and start up a kingdom called the great achievement kingdom. This is recorded in the Chinese history. Yik kam is a supporter of lee man mau army. Both of them are opera artists.

    While in canton, the Qing destroy the fine jade which involve the traitors of hung mun, after the burning, the fut Shan group which lead by Leung LAN Kwai or nick name Ng mui, reorganize the WCK one set system into a three sets system , which is application focus different then the one sets system which is body of the art and application balance focus. The intention is to quickly capable of revenging against the traitors,

    These traitors are either hung mun traitor or taiping heavenly kingdom traitor, they are CLF train. This is where the sensitivity between WCK and CLF started.

    But WCK and CLF are allied in the uprising to against Qing infact, As one can see from the evidence of lee man mau group in kwang Xi, namely, the yik kam lineage or WCK and the co existance of the WCK and CLF in the cho family art.

    So, the group went to kwang Xi with lee man mau doesn't adapt to the three sets system because they are in a different location. While the fut Shan WCK group adapted the three sets system as the standard there on, and one can see these with the art Leung Jan passing down, with both one set system and three sets system , but one set system fade away.


    4. as from the Leung jan and many red boat WCK teaching, WCK is a family art which passed by the yim family to the Leong family, from leong LAN Kwai genertion WCK spread out to the wong wah Bo, yik kam......etc . The members are limited to family relative, close friends in hung mun, or within red boat opera. after the 1855 fine jade assocition destruction it further spread out in the red boat related members.


    5. The story of burning of shao Lin is about the burning of fine jade association, Ng mui is leong LAN Kwai, the cretion of shao lin art against qing is the creation of three sets to revenge the traitor 1855.


    6. Thus, we know any lineage of WCK which goes Pre 1855 is a one set system. Three sets system is post 1855. Via the kuen kuit of the one set system and three sets system of this era we can observe what is WCK very likely to be in that era.


    7. Wing Chun is not weng Chun. As we know the wing chun history above and also the kuen kuit of siu Lin tau in that era. As for weng Chun Evidentally it evolve CLF set such as the peng kuen which is a very different combart principle and engine development.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 03-12-2013 at 12:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    A very nice story, thank you. Is there any evidence to support the details as they relate to Wing Chun history?
    "No contaban con mi astucia!" --el Chapulin Colorado

    http://www.vingtsunaz.com/
    www.nationalvt.com/

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    A very nice story, thank you. Is there any evidence to support the details as they relate to Wing Chun history?
    Sure, it is based on Chinese history facts and evidence.

    There will be an article in the new martial hero hong kong magazine which present these in details from different source of the history.

    From the chinese history side, the triad side, the qing side, the WCK lineages side, the technical signature side....etc . These data support the above WCK story.


    These result of the research is make public to promote more research into it. We might not know the exact but we know the ball park because we do have access to critical keys elements of 1855.


    Let the evidence speaks. The more wcners research the better. I am just one of wcner.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 03-12-2013 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #4
    Lee man mau's order in writing

    http://www.fotoe.com/image/10943052

  5. #5
    Sword of the small knive society Shang hai , the ally of lee man mau of 1854 uprising. They all hung mun members same with yik kam.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=點春堂+小...Aul1xQ4ipVM%3A



    Point spring hall of Shang hai , the head quarter of the small knive society.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=%26%2...ipJKBxq880M%3A



    Spring means opera.

    One can read about this connection in here
    http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...ByHendrikSanto


    Next time you are in Shang hai go there and take some photo with the knive of 1855 era exhibit
    Last edited by Hendrik; 03-12-2013 at 01:23 PM.

  6. #6
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    So basically, what you did was take a bunch of stories you read on the internet (many of which are unverifiable), put them together as what you think may have happened? And now an article is coming out which will prove it all eh? What an a55-clown.

    What is most rediculous is your ide of WCK and CLF 'coming together' to do anything. You make it sound like there was a big gang of WCK people coming together with another gang of CLF people. What is this, west side story? Very interesting story, but that's all it is - your made up his-story to try in vain, yet again, to pass off this one-set theory of yours. You have no evidence of any of this.
    Nice try but I think I'd rather read Dr. Suess.
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 03-12-2013 at 02:17 PM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Sword of the small knive society Shang hai , the ally of lee man mau of 1854 uprising. They all hung mun members same with yik kam.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=點春堂+小...Aul1xQ4ipVM%3A



    Point spring hall of Shang hai , the head quarter of the small knive society.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=%26%2...ipJKBxq880M%3A



    Spring means opera.

    One can read about this connection in here
    http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...ByHendrikSanto


    Next time you are in Shang hai go there and take some photo with the knive of 1855 era exhibit
    More "scientific research".......

    Its not.

    Never was.

    And never will be.

    Its you grasping at straws trying to find evidence to make you theories fit.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    So, today we have data to see what extremely likely to happen in 1850 wing Chun kuen evolution.


    1. 1855 is the years Lee Man Mau lead his army toward kwang Xi and the burning of fine jade in canton.

    2. Prio to 1855, wing Chun is taugh in a one set system. Where we know, both the Wong wah Bo line and the yik kam line inherited them. One can read the Wong wah Bo inheritance of one set system from Leung Jan teaching.


    3. At 1855, lee man mau and his hung mun army when to kwan Xi and start up a kingdom called the great achievement kingdom. This is recorded in the Chinese history. Yik kam is a supporter of lee man mau army. Both of them are opera artists.

    While in canton, the Qing destroy the fine jade which involve the traitors of hung mun, after the burning, the fut Shan group which lead by Leung LAN Kwai or nick name Ng mui, reorganize the WCK one set system into a three sets system , which is application focus different then the one sets system which is body of the art and application balance focus. The intention is to quickly capable of revenging against the traitors,

    These traitors are either hung mun traitor or taiping heavenly kingdom traitor, they are CLF train. This is where the sensitivity between WCK and CLF started.

    But WCK and CLF are allied in the uprising to against Qing infact, As one can see from the evidence of lee man mau group in kwang Xi, namely, the yik kam lineage or WCK and the co existance of the WCK and CLF in the cho family art.

    So, the group went to kwang Xi with lee man mau doesn't adapt to the three sets system because they are in a different location. While the fut Shan WCK group adapted the three sets system as the standard there on, and one can see these with the art Leung Jan passing down, with both one set system and three sets system , but one set system fade away.


    4. as from the Leung jan and many red boat WCK teaching, WCK is a family art which passed by the yim family to the Leong family, from leong LAN Kwai genertion WCK spread out to the wong wah Bo, yik kam......etc . The members are limited to family relative, close friends in hung mun, or within red boat opera. after the 1855 fine jade assocition destruction it further spread out in the red boat related members.


    5. The story of burning of shao Lin is about the burning of fine jade association, Ng mui is leong LAN Kwai, the cretion of shao lin art against qing is the creation of three sets to revenge the traitor 1855.


    6. Thus, we know any lineage of WCK which goes Pre 1855 is a one set system. Three sets system is post 1855. Via the kuen kuit of the one set system and three sets system of this era we can observe what is WCK very likely to be in that era.


    7. Wing Chun is not weng Chun. As we know the wing chun history above and also the kuen kuit of siu Lin tau in that era. As for weng Chun Evidentally it evolve CLF set such as the peng kuen which is a very different combart principle and engine development.
    Hendrik,
    A very unique perspective of wing chun history! i enjoyed reading it

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Hendrik;1218278]


    So, the group went to kwang Xi with lee man mau doesn't adapt to the three sets system because they are in a different location. While the fut Shan WCK group adapted the three sets system as the standard there on, and one can see these with the art Leung Jan passing down, with both one set system and three sets system , but one set system fade away.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The one set system has not faded away. It takes time to be taught and to learn the full set.
    The parts of the set are interconnected- but most students don't finish the set in a systematic way.

  10. #10
    Believe what you like.

    Facts always leave a track to be traced.


    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    So basically, what you did was take a bunch of stories you read on the internet (many of which are unverifiable), put them together as what you think may have happened? And now an article is coming out which will prove it all eh? What an a55-clown.

    What is most rediculous is your ide of WCK and CLF 'coming together' to do anything. You make it sound like there was a big gang of WCK people coming together with another gang of CLF people. What is this, west side story? Very interesting story, but that's all it is - your made up his-story to try in vain, yet again, to pass off this one-set theory of yours. You have no evidence of any of this.
    Nice try but I think I'd rather read Dr. Suess.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Location
    Sydney, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Believe what you like.

    Facts always leave a track to be traced.
    Facts????

    You wouldnt know the meaning of the word

  12. #12

    Tan sau Ng

    Looking at what happen in the 1855,

    Tan sau Ng doesnt play a role on the creation of the three sets .nor him is the creator of WCK as Pan nAm suggest, ip Chun endorse , and many support after that. A popular belive in the 1990,

    If Tan sau Ng is the creator of wing Chun then what he teachers should be the one set system. Instead of the three sets system. Because the three sets system exist only hundreds of years after his time.

    Also, as we already know today on the characteristics of siu nim tau in the red boat era 1850 is infact snake body crane limbs, which is still having a good picture in today's WCK across lineages as in yks , Ipman...etc. , Tan sau Ng had to Atleast practice the Fujian white crane and emei 12 zhuang to be the creator of the siu Lin tau. No shao Lin temple in chinese history has these two types of tehnology for the creation.


    Thus, with these evidences and fact, we know Tan Sau Ng from shao lin of the northen china is extremely not likely to relate to wing Chun kuen of the red boat even he has big role in the red boat opera .

    What is important to know is WCK is very closely related to kulo because the Leong family and the Wong wah poh, leong jan family relative relationship . These people are relative .

    Yik kam learn WCK due to he is an opera player and hung mun, which is close to leong family member particular Leong LAN Kwai who is the dai siheng if not the assistance sifu at that era.

    Thus, wing Chun kuen history is a great history with big back ground of chinese history , but it is not related to shaolin instead in the eyes of the uprising cyclone playing a significant role.


    There is no myth, magic, but real blood and sweat which supporting an uprising era 1855.

    The shadow of the swords in the uprising, the reflection of the water in the river of the red boat, the 1855 passed but not forgotten. The story of wing Chun kuen. A love before time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBGm15iuNVQ
    Last edited by Hendrik; 03-12-2013 at 04:04 PM.

  13. #13
    If the sky opened up for me,
    And the mountain disappeared,
    If the seas ran dry, turned to dust
    And the sun refused to rise
    I would still find my way,
    By the light I see in your eyes
    The world I know fades away
    But you stay



    If the years take away
    Every memory that I have
    I would still know the way
    That would lead me back to your side
    The north star may die
    But the light that I see in your eyes
    Will burn there always




    The history of wing chun kuen.

  14. #14
    The art, the people, the history, and the era. All fits into a single picture.
    It tells what happen, why, who, when, where and how.

    Ten years ago people might not be able to accept it. Ten years later people will have even more accurate details to present it.


    It is a time all WCK lineages union and strengthen the root , a neccesary step before the next evolution which grow wing Chun kuen further.

    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu fighter View Post
    Hendrik,
    A very unique perspective of wing chun history! i enjoyed reading it
    Last edited by Hendrik; 03-12-2013 at 04:18 PM.

  15. #15
    Great sharing, the more WCK preserve the stronger the art. The better the further evolution is.

    [QUOTE=Vajramusti;1218430]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post


    So, the group went to kwang Xi with lee man mau doesn't adapt to the three sets system because they are in a different location. While the fut Shan WCK group adapted the three sets system as the standard there on, and one can see these with the art Leung Jan passing down, with both one set system and three sets system , but one set system fade away.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The one set system has not faded away. It takes time to be taught and to learn the full set.
    The parts of the set are interconnected- but most students don't finish the set in a systematic way.

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