Wing chun kuen What happen in 1855

[wingchunIan]

I heard/read that

that single phrase is at the heart of much of the politics in martial arts today

[wingchunIan]

How much Kung Fu, if any, the two sons were taught by Ip Man will never be known. I find it bizarre they both have different ideas.

Compare the body types of the two individuals and it is not so surprising that they have differing views on some aspects of the system. As with most of the direct students of Ip Man there is actually far more commonality than difference but what they do is inevitably influenced by body type and personality.

[BPWT]

that single phrase is at the heart of much of the politics in martial arts today

True, but 'heard/read' applies to all of us, no? None of us where there when Yip Man was teaching... so everything we 'know'... we heard from someone who tells us it is true

[JPinAZ]

Wing Chun is for fighting not meditating! If my Teacher said he no interest in fighting I would give him the flip! This is a big problem in Wing Chun.

LOL, agreed - try telling this to that clown Hendrik though

[Hendrik]

Sure,

And I describe the WCK according to and practice by the main stream chinese as is for the past 150 years

I could ask you the same question

[JPinAZ]

This article is a triad stories based view which is very common in tcma,

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...hp?article=141

This is obviously troll bait in a desperate attempt for attention and to push your sorry a55 agenda. I'll only comment because others here might actually think you are on to something

The technology DNA and actual Chinese history based tracking research Of 1855 has much more accuratecy then these type of research or ideas. The technology DNA and Chinese history tracking research can answer, who, why, how, where, when.

The more you talk, the more you show you ignorance and stupidity.
The above may be true of 1850's Red Boat WC - but only for your trumped up snake/crane version of it. You act like you know everything about every wing chun lineage out there, which you don't. Hell, you hardly even know your own lineage, which is why you can't fight and are constantly looking back into the past thru your mystical bouncing ball to peice it back together. And if you think you only have to look back as far as 1850's to understand WCK history, I'd say you're just scratching the surface - this is the period where we started to see WCK change, not where it was developed. Your snake/crane mubmo jumbo WC is a great example of this

While the triad stories based will not get to the spot but circle around the triad stories and legend .

Again, pure stupidity guesswork based on no real knowledge of anything.

As in this case, in this article, where is the shao Lin it refer too, when is it happen, what technology DNA from that shao Lin can be traced. The article cannot get to that level to give a precise pin point. Thus, it cannot explain how is the stories from the triad related to siu Lin tau or the core of the WCK. As we relate California wine to napa valley. iPad to apple inc.

Hey moron - it's a friggin article! No matter how you think otherwise, you're not going to learn much about WCK (let alone understand a complete system of WCK) from reading a single, short article. But people continue to do stupid things every day...

So, making guesses about DNA of other lineages without any knowledge or experience of them is simply idiotic and makes you look like a bigger clown that your clips do (ok, maybe the clips do it better). I offered several times to meet with you so you can stop the guessing and see HFY for yourself, and also to allow you the chance to show your the results of your 'theories'. Of course were too scared to be exposed as a fraud to take me up on my offed - but it's always there if you change your mind

FWIW, and since the article is clearly about HFY: the DNA 'trace' of Hung Fa Yi is very evident to those that understand the core system technology, as well as it's links to history, culture and philosophies it came from. One example would be HFY's usage of Saam Mo Kiu Tin Yan Dei. One would have to have a pretty good understanding of all of these things to make the statements you are trying to make. Since you barely have a full grasp of your own snake/crane animal chop suey kung fu, stop embarrassing yourself further by guessing at things you know even less about.

Notice. 1855, no zen involve, no monks involve. No mystic. No shao Lin. But extremely political and survival.

What an idiot. 1600's 1700's and 1850 are all very different time periods. Ever look at a calendar?
No one said shaolin monks were running in 1850 on the Red Boats, not in the article you linked, and as far as I know, not on any of these forums. Also, you're only looking at the WCK that was on the Red Boats during the 1850's - there are other lineages that do not even stem from the red boats (HFY being one of them). Your desperate attempt to piece together things you have no idea about makes you look as retarded and desperate as your self-made bat wall humping porno clip.

Stick to what you do know: humping inanimate objects in your living room and leave the WCK to the sane people.

[Hendrik]

In the article,

It says

--------------

Paradigm Shift

The ten years intensive training required to master classical Shaolin postures was not logistically viable. This version of Wing Chun may have been created by a different group within the same Wing Chun Tong or the same group heavily influenced by military thinking from Ming Dynasty officers; either way, members of the Chu royal family, the former leaders of the Ming Dynasty, supported this group. This is the first time in the development of Shaolin fighting systems that time and space themselves became the focal point of design consideration. They provided the "idea" in the first level of Siu Nim Tao (Little Beginning Idea) training. The military implications of this decision are far too extensive for review here. Suffice it to say the physical science expertise of the monks, resulting from their relentless pursuit of the laws of nature and universal harmony, paired with the tactical and logistical training necessities confronting the professional soldiers, yielded the ultimate fighting system in terms of efficiency and effectiveness.



Wing Chun Flourishes


The second phase of Wing Chun development, Modification and Public Awareness, arose and flourished over the next 100 years. During this era, Wing Chun went through its third period of major change in form, footwork, and structure. Environmental and cultural factors such as exposure to life on boats in the southern coastal regions of China for over 100 years may have heavily influenced stances and training methodologies. The art began a transition from military employment to civilian use and support.

As a result of this transition, Wing Chun outside the Hung Fa Yi tradition began to discard its scientific orientation and revert back to a focus based on individual expressions and personal experience.

Likewise, students were no longer required to endure hours of initiation ceremonies and blood oaths to fight to the death for a specific cause. Nevertheless, Wing Chun's fighting effectiveness continued, as repeatedly demonstrated in challenge matches with other styles and individual opponents. The majority of today's most popular lineages stem from roots in this era. Two of those lineages stem from one man alone for each: Yip Man and Gu Lao (g? l?uh). Both originated from Dr. Leung Jan (l?uhng jaan), who learned his Wing Chun directly from Red Opera members. Others lineages include Pao Fa Lien (p?auh f? l?hn), Yuen Kay San (y?n k?ih-s?an), Pan Nam (p?ahng n?ahm), Nanyang (n?ahm y?uhng), Cho family (ch?uh ga), and numerous subsystems practiced throughout Southeast Asia.

The legends of Wing Chun's roots also flourished during this period. The famous story of a young woman trained by a Buddhist nun creating and disseminating the art through the Red Boat Opera became quite popular. Ex-revolutionaries distancing themselves from the secret societies and governmental persecution most likely promoted the popularity of this legend. Many popular Chinese fictional books and magazines were written and published at the turn of the century. Many fables about martial arts orientation resulted from the stories in these works, including the legend of Yim Wing Chun (y?hm wihng che?n). It is important for all students of history to note that these were purely fictional works, not historical treatises. Nevertheless, they still fueled legends.


The Commercialization Phase of Wing Chun represents its rapid expansion in modern day. This stage emerges in the mid-20th century with the flight of Wing Chun teachers from Mainland China resulting from political instability during China's civil war. Its popularity quickly spread across the globe, due primarily to the renowned fighting success of Yip Man's gong sau (talking hands) fighters and the movie-making success of Bruce Lee (l?ih s?u l?hng). Today, the Ving Tsun Athletic Association (wihng che?n t?i yuhk w?ih) in Hong Kong serves as a nexus for the Yip Man lineage. Along with rapid growth came the politicization of the art in the form of arguments over "who" inherited the real Wing Chun and the resultant rights to control its commercialization through franchises, certifying associations, publications, videos, internet entities, etc.


---------------


The discussion here is WCK history, not any lineage's , this article is published in A public magazine. Thus, it can be observe and investigate by wcners.

Well, sorry , both by technological DNA of tcma and history of china. What written in the article is not the case for WCK 1955 history .

Also, After a decade, the author switch view to white crane of fujian.


If any one has evidence to support the claim in this article above, please share them. I am open with it. I never take myself as the truth.

This is obviously troll bait in a desperate attempt for attention and to push your sorry a55 agenda. I'll only comment because others here might actually think you are on to something



The more you talk, the more you show you ignorance and stupidity.
The above may be true of 1850's Red Boat WC - but only for your trumped up snake/crane version of it. You act like you know everything about every wing chun lineage out there, which you don't. Hell, you hardly even know your own lineage, which is why you can't fight and are constantly looking back into the past thru your mystical bouncing ball to peice it back together. And if you think you only have to look back as far as 1850's to understand WCK history, I'd say you're just scratching the surface - this is the period where we started to see WCK change, not where it was developed. Your snake/crane mubmo jumbo WC is a great example of this



Again, pure stupidity guesswork based on no real knowledge of anything.



Hey moron - it's a friggin article! No matter how you think otherwise, you're not going to learn much about WCK (let alone understand a complete system of WCK) from reading a single, short article. But people continue to do stupid things every day...

So, making guesses about DNA of other lineages without any knowledge or experience of them is simply idiotic and makes you look like a bigger clown that your clips do (ok, maybe the clips do it better). I offered several times to meet with you so you can stop the guessing and see HFY for yourself, and also to allow you the chance to show your the results of your 'theories'. Of course were too scared to be exposed as a fraud to take me up on my offed - but it's always there if you change your mind

FWIW, and since the article is clearly about HFY: the DNA 'trace' of Hung Fa Yi is very evident to those that understand the core system technology, as well as it's links to history, culture and philosophies it came from. One example would be HFY's usage of Saam Mo Kiu Tin Yan Dei. One would have to have a pretty good understanding of all of these things to make the statements you are trying to make. Since you barely have a full grasp of your own snake/crane animal chop suey kung fu, stop embarrassing yourself further by guessing at things you know even less about.



What an idiot. 1600's 1700's and 1850 are all very different time periods. Ever look at a calendar?
No one said shaolin monks were running in 1850 on the Red Boats, not in the article you linked, and as far as I know, not on any of these forums. Also, you're only looking at the WCK that was on the Red Boats during the 1850's - there are other lineages that do not even stem from the red boats (HFY being one of them). Your desperate attempt to piece together things you have no idea about makes you look as retarded and desperate as your self-made bat wall humping porno clip.

Stick to what you do know: humping inanimate objects in your living room and leave the WCK to the sane people.

[JPinAZ]

The discussion here is WCK history, not any lineage's , this article is published in A public magazine. Thus, it can be observe and investigate by wcners.

Well, sorry , both by technological DNA of tcma and history of china. What written in the article is not the case for WCK 1955 history .

Also, After a decade, the author switch view to white crane of fujian.

Wrong. You're such a bumbling moron and once again you have no idea what it is your are even talking about. The author of the article is my first sifu, Richard J. Loewenhagen and I know for a fact that he has never excepted this white crane fujian source BS nonsense.
Since you can't seem to even be able to read a simple article, it talks about both lineage as well as history. And the history it discusses is partially based on HFY's oral histories - which goes much further back than your 1850's roadblock you seem to be stuck on.

If any one has evidence to support the claim in this article above, please share them. I am open with it. I never take myself as the truth.

I already mentioned part of HFY technology that supports a shaolin connection, but again you are to stupid to read plain english. As I have offered several times, I am always willing to come meet you so you can see the evidence first hand. All you have to do is accept

But of course, we all know you won't since are not interested in any real facts based on first hand experience. Maybe it's for the best, because I'm not sure I want to meet someone that gets off filming themselves humping bats, balls and walls to their made-up history supporting their chop suey snake/crane animal kung fu style.

[Hendrik]

You are right!

It is not Benny Meng but Loewenhagen in written!

Benny switch to white crane of fujian proceed from red flag to black flag.

My mistakes! Sorry !

Wrong. You're such a bumbling moron and once again you have no idea what it is your are even talking about. The author of the article is my first sifu, Richard J. Loewenhagen and I know for a fact that he has never excepted this white crane fujian source BS nonsense.
Since you can't seem to even be able to read a simple article, it talks about both lineage as well as history. And the history it discusses is partially based on HFY's oral histories - which goes much further back than your 1850's roadblock you seem to be stuck on.



I already mentioned part of HFY technology that supports a shaolin connection, but again you are to stupid to read plain english. As I have offered several times, I am always willing to come meet you so you can see the evidence first hand. All you have to do is accept

But of course, we all know you won't since are not interested in any real facts based on first hand experience. Maybe it's for the best, because I'm not sure I want to meet someone that gets off filming themselves humping bats, balls and walls to their made-up history supporting their chop suey snake/crane animal kung fu style.

[Robinhood]

LOL, agreed - try telling this to that clown Hendrik though

WC came from the north, it is just a simplified version of the MA 's that were taught and documented for thousands of years. It is a striped down version of traditional MA that is easier to learn and apply than full systems like Tai Chi.

I don't know who the idiots are that think traditional MA don't have a core that connects the parts, but all complete arts address the core, otherwise you are just like a hollow shell , that when the shell is breached nothing is left except a broken shell, like the death star before it is completed.

Every art has tools, like the alphabet , that you learn to use for defending your self, the tools need to attach to the core for support. You can't plug a tool into a shell and expect the shell to power it, it is only a shell , no power source to the ground for support.

So Henrick's development of the core is essential parts of all arts , except maybe fast food arts that just give you a quick byte. , but eat what you want.

[Robinhood]

This article is a triad stories based view which is very common in tcma,

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...hp?article=141


The technology DNA and actual Chinese history based tracking research Of 1855 has much more accuratecy then these type of research or ideas. The technology DNA and Chinese history tracking research can answer, who, why, how, where, when. While the triad stories based will not get to the spot but circle around the triad stories and legend .

As in this case, in this article, where is the shao Lin it refer too, when is it happen, what technology DNA from that shao Lin can be traced. The article cannot get to that level to give a precise pin point. Thus, it cannot explain how is the stories from the triad related to siu Lin tau or the core of the WCK. As we relate California wine to napa valley. iPad to apple inc.

And as we know, decade later the author of this articke flip to white crane of fujian away from shao Pin.







Notice. 1855, no zen involve, no monks involve. No mystic. No shao Lin. But extremely political and survival.

Garret Gee didn't even know any wng chun, his father taught another style, he was trying to learn wing chun from the locals, then all the sudden he started claiming he was wing chun , you can't believe anything you read these days.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1218675]In the article,

It says

--------------

Paradigm Shift

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO we are not ready for a definitive macro history of wing chun and Benny Meng's journey via TKD, Moy Yat, HFY red flag, black flag (or is it the other way around) is interesting- not.

[GlennR]

WC came from the north, it is just a simplified version of the MA 's that were taught and documented for thousands of years. It is a striped down version of traditional MA that is easier to learn and apply than full systems like Tai Chi.

How do you know about the north thing?
If its so "stripped down" why all the mumbo jumbo Hendrik goes on about
Who says its easier to learn thatn the other TCMA'S

I don't know who the idiots are that think traditional MA don't have a core that connects the parts, but all complete arts address the core, otherwise you are just like a hollow shell , that when the shell is breached nothing is left except a broken shell, like the death star before it is completed.

Like the death star before it is completed.......... use the force Luke!
Honestly, how old are you?

Every art has tools, like the alphabet , that you learn to use for defending your self, the tools need to attach to the core for support. You can't plug a tool into a shell and expect the shell to power it, it is only a shell , no power source to the ground for support.

What i find funny is people that use analogies all the time, its basically because they cant explain, in a real world what they are trying to do.
Using your analogy, a cordless drill cant work.......... christ (head slap)

So Henrick's development of the core is essential parts of all arts , except maybe fast food arts that just give you a quick byte. , but eat what you want

Core work is essential, just not Hendriks.

Mate, if i hit harder, have better balance and do what id like to easier than Hendrik..... who's correct?

[JPinAZ]

Garret Gee didn't even know any wng chun, his father taught another style, he was trying to learn wing chun from the locals, then all the sudden he started claiming he was wing chun , you can't believe anything you read these days.

Another clueless idiot speaking about things he knows nothing about - no wonder you have your head up hendrik's a55. While you are correct about what his father taught, you're clueless about everything else.
Try reading once in a while: http://www.hungfakwoon.com/SifuGee.htm

[JPinAZ]

You are right!
It is not Benny Meng but Loewenhagen in written!
Benny switch to white crane of fujian proceed from red flag to black flag.
My mistakes! Sorry !

So then, you really have no point at all and you have no idea what you're talking about what-so-ever. At least you finally admit it..