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Thread: This is Pak Mei Master Simon Lui Long Chun

  1. #46
    Yum Cha, no offense taken.

    Hap Ging Do and Ging Do are 2 unrelated organizations. Hap Ging Do branched off of Siu Ting Fun's Ging Do for political reasons, and headed by Siu's former classmate/student Lau Cheun. Siu is still living in Guangzhou.

    The demo was Siu's student Gong Faat Ming, who isnt really exaggerated as much as "still on the path". His force is good and loves to show it off.

    The bamboo is our Sup Ji Jong, cross pattern dummy. One vertical and one horizontal beam and we train different forces on each. It springs back at you which is where the training portion comes in. That video is quite recent as Gong is still training practitioners in Guangzhou, and performs from time to time in Hong Kong where I am.

  2. #47

    hap ging do calgary

    http://www.bakmeihapgingdo.com/BMHGD...6/Default.aspx

    Is this part of the group that split away soulfist or is the name coincidental?
    I am not the best at sorting who is who in these threads/webpages/lineage discussions.

    ohhh read more and interestingly the only mention of Sui Ting Fun is as the person Lau Siu Chun learnt Lung Ying from.

    Thx

    R
    Last edited by R; 08-31-2011 at 03:22 AM.

  3. #48
    Yeah thats them. They have a couple schools going yes but alot of family issues going on and no leader since the main teacher Lau Fai passed away a few years ago. Heres 2 other pages of theirs, but their lineage page is incorrect (weve spoken already):

    http://www.hupgingdo.com/home.html
    http://www.hupgingdobc.com/

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yum Cha View Post
    Nice video Alex. Pleased to meet you. Minnesota?


    As another poster said, "you can see it when it happens properly", not only the 'pop' of the faat ging, but the spine and belly movement too.

    I agree that the Chow Fook videos are pretty exceptional, but the poor old gentleman was well past his prime, and very stiff with age. He is hing-dai with my Si-gung.

    the video of the New Zealand Sifu doing Gau Bo Twi is pretty 'classic' as per a wu shu demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lji8_...eature=related and probably the best textbook example.

    The slow stuff, just demonstration and teaching/showing, not doing, IMHO. I mean, I play it that way sometimes just for grins, focus on breathing, other stuff like that, but it 's a different thing.

    You'll notice, the shoulders and head stay in front of the hips, generally. when you see the head being thrown back, it breaks the form and strength. Pak Mei is full of formulae, all you have to do is look and check the positioning, its not rocket science...

    Ronin-
    Short power in a more live demonstration:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h79sQ795Crc

    Short power in light sparring:
    look at the end, around 120, especially around 1:29
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TodaiLeu.../0/HqoV_ivujLM

    What you reckon?
    Hey dude
    I like that clip you posted of the form, nice, smooth and fluid with "ging".
    As for the short power demo clips.
    Meh...
    I don't think its possible to show short power in LIGHT sparring, kind of self-defeating know what I mean?
    The live demo was fine.
    How's training going?
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #50
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    I word on the "sunken chest" thing that is so prevelant in southern arts like PM, SPM, LY and more.
    It's not solely the provedance of TCMA, boxing has it too.
    In another thread I posted pics of boxers like Marciano, Louis and Tyson that used that "hunched back".
    While there can be obvious medical issues from that ( the "mantid posture" that many older SPM master develop for example), the power production and reception is well documented.
    I think that some just OVER due it, which can be counter-productive.
    There is a "hunch" in one posture when one "sinks the chest" and "rolls over the shoulders" for protection ( as some boxers do) but it should be natural and not forced and depending on bone structure, some will have a noticable one and some far less BUT none should be exagerrated to the point of discomfort.

    Remember that the human is UNIFORM, we ALL have the same bodies and power is produced the same from one individual to another ( using the same methods).
    Physics and bio-mechanics dictate, not anything else.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Thanks Diego!

    What is Ying Jow? eagle claw?



    my view only, one cannot hide ging from train eyes. so even if one doesnt show it, the boundary of one's ging can be inspect via one's body frame or frame structure. similar to one could take a look at the architecture frame and predict is it earth quake ready....etc.
    Ying Jow Neem Kiu is a form that means Eagle Claw Sticking Bridge (originally called Neem Kiu). It is a form with difficult foot work which most people cut short, either because they learnt it that way, want to hide it, or can'y perform it correctly. Basically what makes this form unique is it's half backward steps which go straight back combined with half corner back steps. Most people cut it short and do the backward shuffle similar to the classic Som Moon and Sup Baat Mor Kiu because it's faster and less difficult. I am the VP of our group and my Sifu is the one performing in the video posted. People have high respect for Chow Fook as do we and is also indirectly related to us. He uses breathwork with strikes which is great. Read all my responses on this post. I hope the info is helpful.
    -Pak Mei MN VP
    Alex Do (Du Ke 1973)

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Excellent clip Alex.
    Thank you.

    When you get a chance I would love to see that being applied in a practical way.
    Curious as to how it would work since it looks similar to the SPM I have been exposed to.
    My grew up with SPM, as my SPM sifu is Gin Foon Mark. Check out my Jook Lum clips. I will beat a bag full force and throw around a MMA dummy to demonstrate sometime soon. :-)

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by soulfist View Post
    Yichuan does not use this theory, your way off with that. Luk Ging / Liu Jin what your referring to is a southern concept and found in many similar styles to Bak Mei. This is physics of motion, medically it is the three planes: sagittal, coronal, and transverse planes.

    The performer Gong Faat Ming has no exposure to Yichuan or other such arts, nor did his teacher before him. Dont put limitations on Bak Mei like the others, instead try to consider what it "is" capable of!

    In my little understanding, the traditional BM six gings are as the following. instead of what was present in the video clip.

    "Look-ging-chiy-fat” means the explosion of the six elements of ging power working in unison to create one explosive force. The six elements of ging are:

    Teeth
    Neck
    Shoulders
    Hips
    Arms
    Legs


    So, where are those concept come from? if it is not an evolution?



    Qigong and Kungfu differ (for this discussion) in that Qigong follows the meridians whereas Kungfu follows the marrow.


    Structurally, which is what this is about, force comes from the back and not the front.

    Whenever the back is hunched it is due to a practitioner unable to train his shoulder girdle to move independently of the torso, making it necessary to hunch to achieve "hum hung".

    If proper training and time is spent then the thoracic should elongate upwards while the scapula rounds out and forwards. I just said up, out, forward... the three planes that I previously mentioned!

    in my opinion
    I disagree with your view above. In traditional Chinese Neigong, that is not the case.

    Chinese Neigong is a systemic thinking product, while you are using the western analytical thinking trying to make sense at some part but missing the big picture.

    the above theory including the three planes seems to be a modern psuedo scientific theory which is westernized.




    That hunch places a load on the neck and presses on the brain stem at the foramen magnum, do it and feel the suboccipital tension for yourself!

    The spine must be free to move and at no time hunchs. Visually where do you see the tension in the practitioners body?

    Take an objective look, subcostally in the front and higher up in the T3-7 region laterally behind. Tension, it blocks chi and hinders motion.

    Do you see the same thing present in the clip I showed?

    Some people over do it due to they dont understand the reason behind the need so it become hunch.
    however, there is a good reason for doing what they do.

    For me, your above view is an adaption of Taiji and western biology mix. but it doesnt address the needs, the reason, the proper way of doing things in a holistic systemic manner. thus, this type of theory is sound but it really doesnt provide much help.



    If you disbelieve then I lead you right back to Jeung Lai Cheun's description of Bak Mei's posture (4 points) and you will see that number three is contradicted with the hunch!

    as I mention above Hunch is not proper. however, one needs to address what is proper and why is it lead to hunch? take a look at the general youtube of BM, and see for yourself how many percent of BM clips has that hunch or almost hunch.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Arms View Post
    Not something my Sifu would like me discussing on a public forum, sorry Hendrik. Good Pak Mei should be rooted, fluid, and powerful, I will say that much.
    All styles at their peak should have those mentioned qualities.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuKe1973 View Post
    My grew up with SPM, as my SPM sifu is Gin Foon Mark. Check out my Jook Lum clips. I will beat a bag full force and throw around a MMA dummy to demonstrate sometime soon. :-)
    Cool,
    I have GM Mark's DVD and his books, they are a great asset to my MA library.
    My SPM is via Macao by the way.
    Whenever you get a chance, that'll be great.
    I myself have promised clips too be have been to busy in my free time to do any so I know how it is.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuKe1973 View Post
    All styles at their peak should have those mentioned qualities.
    How about that? Yet much of what is often shown as representative of Pak Mei and other systems lacks one or more of those qualities.
    -Golden Arms-

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Arms View Post
    How about that? Yet much of what is often shown as representative of Pak Mei and other systems lacks one or more of those qualities.
    The system lacks?
    Kyokushin has always had head shots in sparring, it was only in bare knuckle competiion that head shots were disallowed.
    In training they are suppose to be there.
    I can honestly tell you that is NOT the case with all schools of Kyokushin.
    Yet the SYSTEM advocates headshots, the founder killed a man with a HEADSHOT.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    The system lacks?
    Kyokushin has always had head shots in sparring, it was only in bare knuckle competiion that head shots were disallowed.
    In training they are suppose to be there.
    I can honestly tell you that is NOT the case with all schools of Kyokushin.
    Yet the SYSTEM advocates headshots, the founder killed a man with a HEADSHOT.
    Sorry, text does not always convey emphasis as it was intended.

    I meant that many of the video clips that people rave about lack those basic fundamentals. That does not mean the system lacks them (I practice Pak Mei) in my view, but that the understanding of some practitioners and teachers appears not to have those fundamental concepts in mind. This is in no way specific to Pak Mei, it appears to be rampant across many martial arts.

    Unfortunately, dead style seems to be rampant on youtube.

    By the way, its great to see some new posts on this system on the boards, sounds like there are a few on here that have been practicing for quite a while.
    Last edited by Golden Arms; 08-31-2011 at 12:42 PM.
    -Golden Arms-

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Arms View Post
    Sorry, text does not always convey emphasis as it was intended.

    I meant that many of the video clips that people rave about lack those basic fundamentals. That does not mean the system lacks them (I practice Pak Mei) in my view, but that the understanding of some practitioners and teachers appears not to have those fundamental concepts in mind. This is in no way specific to Pak Mei, it appears to be rampant across many martial arts.

    Dead style seems to be rampant on youtube.
    Yeah...but you know Bro, not everyone is "suited" for certain styles.
    Some just aren't a good fit.
    It isn't always about the physical either, some people are not suited mentally for certain systems.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by DuKe1973 View Post
    Ying Jow Neem Kiu is a form that means Eagle Claw Sticking Bridge (originally called Neem Kiu). It is a form with difficult foot work which most people cut short, either because they learnt it that way, want to hide it, or can'y perform it correctly. Basically what makes this form unique is it's half backward steps which go straight back combined with half corner back steps. Most people cut it short and do the backward shuffle similar to the classic Som Moon and Sup Baat Mor Kiu because it's faster and less difficult. I am the VP of our group and my Sifu is the one performing in the video posted. People have high respect for Chow Fook as do we and is also indirectly related to us. He uses breathwork with strikes which is great. Read all my responses on this post. I hope the info is helpful.
    -Pak Mei MN VP
    Alex Do (Du Ke 1973)
    Thank you Alex for your details sharing!

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