View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
Page 1281 of 1335 FirstFirst ... 2817811181123112711279128012811282128312911331 ... LastLast
Results 19,201 to 19,215 of 20011

Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #19201
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    kentucky
    Posts
    350
    First thing, Sean you don't know what you are talking about, but do you have any peanut butter?? Lol

    Second thing, does anyone on here work?? This thing blows up during the week when most people should be working????
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  2. #19202
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga US
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by OldandUsed View Post
    I am afraid you guys have missed the point I was making and are hanging up on a few semantics.

    Let me try again. It does not matter what the source of the form is (book, video, live instructor) if you do not perform the technique correctly. Improper form is junk, regardless of where you got it. If you were taught correctly, but you lack the discipline or skill to execute the technique, then you are wrong.
    No I agree with you on that. Maybe the rest is semantics because I do not believe you can adequately (never mind properly) learn from a media source. You need instruction by someone who was also instructed in that manner on that topic.
    Message: Due to the ongoing Recession, God has decided the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off due to power costs. That is all.

  3. #19203
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    378
    The other thing to keep in mind is that there is not only 1 path to full understanding. If all somebody did is hear about an armbar/trap/break (let alone see a video/book/etc.) and did the biomechanical research, practice,and application then what would stop them from finding good technique? Just because they didn't learn the technique from some guy named Master Wang that means it's crap?

  4. #19204
    Quote Originally Posted by sean_stonehart View Post
    because I do not believe you can adequately (never mind properly) learn from a media source. You need instruction by someone who was also instructed in that manner on that topic.
    It depends on the media.

    take this book for example http://www.amazon.es/The-Fundamental.../dp/0195093364

    It has a whole commentary of each chapter and the author is well versed in the matter, which I do appreciate.

  5. #19205
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by OldandUsed View Post
    I am afraid you guys have missed the point I was making and are hanging up on a few semantics.

    Let me try again. It does not matter what the source of the form is (book, video, live instructor) if you do not perform the technique correctly. Improper form is junk, regardless of where you got it. If you were taught correctly, but you lack the discipline or skill to execute the technique, then you are wrong.
    The point everyone is making is that 99.99999999999999% of the time, learning from a book will = improper learning. So if someone learned something from a book, it's safe to assume that it's faulty; much more than a video (which also has flaws).
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  6. #19206
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by shen ku View Post
    First thing, Sean you don't know what you are talking about, but do you have any peanut butter?? Lol

    Second thing, does anyone on here work?? This thing blows up during the week when most people should be working????
    When should most people be working? Not every works 9am - 5pm, Mon - Fri. Some people work evenings, and some others access the forum from work or even on their phones.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  7. #19207
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga US
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by shen ku View Post
    First thing, Sean you don't know what you are talking about, but do you have any peanut butter?? Lol
    Promise man... I got the clue on what I'm yammering off about. I try to not if I don't. And I got the PB!!!! I've got crunchy, smooth & Reese's!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shen ku View Post
    Second thing, does anyone on here work?? This thing blows up during the week when most people should be working????
    Work?? Sometimes... it's a daily thing that takes way more than 8 hours & is rarely contiguous in occurrence.
    Message: Due to the ongoing Recession, God has decided the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off due to power costs. That is all.

  8. #19208
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    1,860

    Learning

    Some seem to assume that a teacher is perfect and does not make mistakes. So lets say teacher A is Perfect and teaches B then B to C etc. Is the reproduction of the Material going to be the same ?
    I say NO.
    So what many have learned from Human teachers is already Flawed somewhat. Like wise if I have a DVD to refer to then that does not change. That is why in my opinion many forms while still taught by humans are going to change. Many also seem to think the next generation of student doesnt put their own twist on things so this intimate Knowledge is never the same for one as it is for another, even from the same teacher if any time has passed since the 1st teaching of it. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  9. #19209
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    kentucky
    Posts
    350
    Sean I have no doubt that you know what you talk abot, I was just having fun
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  10. #19210
    Here is a simple way of looking at it. If Person A learned Form X from a solid teacher, and Person B learned Form X from a book that exactly matches what the teacher does and Person C learns Form X from a DVD and they all practice it who has the best chance of doing right?

    Person B reading from the book has the least chance of properly reproducing it because he is looking at static images and reading one particular way of explaining it. The transitions in particular will be bad.

    Person C with the DVD has better information. He can see the flow. He can see the transitions. He can see from different angles. He stop it and play it back. He can see it in slow motion. He can follow along with it hundreds of times. All of that is better than learning from a live teacher.

    However, Person A should have the best reproduction of what the teacher wants. The teacher has the most important traits of all. He has eyes and can speak based on what his eyes have seen. Until DVDs can watch your movement and make case specific corrections they are a weak substitute for a live teacher.

  11. #19211
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    Some seem to assume that a teacher is perfect and does not make mistakes. So lets say teacher A is Perfect and teaches B then B to C etc. Is the reproduction of the Material going to be the same ?
    I say NO.
    So what many have learned from Human teachers is already Flawed somewhat. Like wise if I have a DVD to refer to then that does not change. That is why in my opinion many forms while still taught by humans are going to change. Many also seem to think the next generation of student doesnt put their own twist on things so this intimate Knowledge is never the same for one as it is for another, even from the same teacher if any time has passed since the 1st teaching of it. KC
    The problem isn't minor changes being made to the form. It's the quality itself. Without a teacher present, it's very easy to make mistakes that will not be corrected. Even advanced students under a good teacher will make small mistakes and the teacher must correct them.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  12. #19212
    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    Some seem to assume that a teacher is perfect and does not make mistakes. So lets say teacher A is Perfect and teaches B then B to C etc. Is the reproduction of the Material going to be the same ?
    I say NO.
    So what many have learned from Human teachers is already Flawed somewhat. Like wise if I have a DVD to refer to then that does not change. That is why in my opinion many forms while still taught by humans are going to change. Many also seem to think the next generation of student doesnt put their own twist on things so this intimate Knowledge is never the same for one as it is for another, even from the same teacher if any time has passed since the 1st teaching of it. KC
    Don't know about anyone else, but the point I was trying to make originally was not that teachers are perfect, but that it's highly improbable that: given the same source, a book will produce the same quality instruction as a live person.

    I wasn't saying "students who train with live teachers are better than students who train with books", nor was I saying "students who train with Master X are better than students who train with Master Y", so assertions about whoever trains harder are irrelevant. I was saying that given the same student who trains just as hard in each scenario, that person would most probably end up more skilled by learning from a live teacher.

    If you're going to learn Ren Guang Yi Tai Chi, you can read his book, you can watch his videos, or you can go learn from him directly. He is who he is, and he's the source for what you're learning, personal flaws or not. Since it's all coming from exactly the same person, why would you expect the result to be unaffected by the method of transmission? Of course you would choose to learn from him directly, if you could. I have no idea how skilled Ren Guang Yi is or isn't, but it doesn't affect the conclusion. He could be a horrible master, and his form could be complete crap, but if you wanted to learn it you would be best served by doing so in person. Just having trained with him in person won't make you a good fighter, but ceteris paribus you should be better trained in person than by book.

  13. #19213
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga US
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by shen ku View Post
    Sean I have no doubt that you know what you talk abot, I was just having fun
    I know... just making sure... and I still got PB!!!!!!!
    Message: Due to the ongoing Recession, God has decided the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off due to power costs. That is all.

  14. #19214
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Corner of somewhere and where am I
    Posts
    1,322
    Learning to fight is a lot like a science lab. You can remember everything you need to know learning from a book or video. Anyone that says otherwise is just stuck in the past. Every doctor on the planet starts out by leaning from a book. I have a degree that says I can learn from a book (because most professors are just there to clear up things, or foot stomp and say this is the extra important part).

    The issue is putting it into practice. Much like I won't trust a researcher that hasn't had time in a lab or in the field actually practicing their science, a fighter won't get anywhere by not fighting.

    If you learn from a book or vid, and have someone who on a regular basis pushes you in sparring, etc, then you will be just fine. You'll probably be better off than the idiots doing forms all day in front of a teacher.

    The only thing you need to check is, is the book/vid accurate? Does the person writin the book have a f'n clue? Most times, they don't. But neither do most kung fu teachers. And are you pressure testing? I've learned stuff from Eddie Bravo books and pulled on people when rolling. All it takes is a little common sense and practice.

  15. #19215
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Midgard
    Posts
    10,852
    Sorry to jump in here, and not going at anyone specifically, and may even be out of context...but:

    Book learning is perfectly fine, but if you start from zero and try to learn a physical endeavor strictly from book learning, you will not be able to get one of the most important aspects to any physical endeavor. Physical correction based on outside observation from an experienced source coach.

    I can't tell if we're advocating beginning with video/book learning and only doing that and then sparring regularly, or if talking picking things up from a book/video after you've had enough time in training to 'get a grasp' of how fighting works.

    Sparring of course changes the game a bit.. if your sparring partners are also teaching you how to do things properly, drilling things with you, and not just being sparring partners, then you are not truly doing book learning. You have physical teachers/training partners.

    You can definitely learn without an instructor, and just sparr to try and figure out some specifics on your own, but you'll suck compared to what you could achieve with a real coach. person on person drills that build skill that you'll then use to a better degree with better understanding in live sparring is important.

    you will never find any olympic athlete that never had a coach. likewise you'll never find a world level contender in any sport event that did not have a coach.

    If you are a natural, you'll progress alright, but then you will not meet your true potential if you continue to go at it alone.

    advocating learning soley from a book or a video is the same thing as suggesting we hold ourselves back, imo.

    now if you have prior experience thats one thing, especially if you have actually achieved any degree of skill.

    But to take someone who is awkward in movement due to non experience, and ignorant of the way correct movement feels under specific scenarios, they will never gain the same understanding out of a book or a video that they would from having constant, hands on instruction.

    This is the reason that not all schools are equal. they may all have access to the same information, but the best schools have the best teachers. A teacher/coach can drive a student to learn faster than they would on their own through proven teaching methods.
    Last edited by Lucas; 07-11-2013 at 03:51 PM.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •