Big Buddha Beads

[wiz cool c]

The very thick beads worn around the neck of the orange clothed older monks, anyone know what purpose they serve?

[boxerbilly]

[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1280853]The very thick beads worn around the neck of the orange clothed older monks, anyone know what purpose they serve?[/QUOTE

Fashion.

[wiz cool c]

[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1280862]

The very thick beads worn around the neck of the orange clothed older monks, anyone know what purpose they serve?[/QUOTE

Fashion.

really is that it? i got a pair recently, and was thinking they are too big to use as prayer beads,but they must have some purpose other than just fashion. I noticed they are heavy and if worn long enough give your neck a work out. Gene maybe you have some idea?

[boxerbilly]

[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1280863]

really is that it? i got a pair recently, and was thinking they are too big to use as prayer beads,but they must have some purpose other than just fashion. I noticed they are heavy and if worn long enough give your neck a work out. Gene maybe you have some idea?

I really do not know. I was actually thinking they may be used for counting as some use prayer beads. But if they are heavy and the cord is strong enough than maybe they could be a weapon?

[GeneChing]

You mean the over-sized beads, like what MartialArtsMart.com offers here, right? (I know, I know, currently out of stock we ship through Port of Oakland which is just a few miles north of us, and that's been an issue lately as I'm sure you know if you follow the news)

To the best of my knowledge, over-sized beads were used primarily as altar offerings. They were not really meant to be worn by humans. They were used to adorn statues or to be sacred objects in their own right. Keep in mind that the foundation of the Buddhist robe is one of sacrificial poverty. Buddhist robes were sewn together by monks from discarded scraps of funeral shrouds. Originally, Buddhism wasn't into the bling. It opposes the tenets of non-materialism. Of course, Buddhism has come a long way since then and has many different interpretations. Once Imperial patronage entered the scene, jewel-adorned attire became part of the offerings, so nowadays, some Buddhist abbots have some pretty fine rags. But back to the over-sized beads, I imagine that they became attire through the popular representations in media like traditional opera and movies, the caricature of the big monk needed big beads. Someone like Friar Sand of Journey to the West needs big fat beads.

The big beads don't really work that well as a weapon. I suppose you could make anything into a weapon - Jackie-Chan it, if you will - but having the beads be bigger doesn't really help that much. I have a steel set of Buddhist beads that I got at Shaolin many years ago. Now that's a weapon.

[wiz cool c]

Thanks Gene. So let me get this straight. Originally was created to be alter deities beads,then later when Buddhism started to become more trendy in society the monks started wearing them? Something like that?

[LFJ]

There is a very rare set passed down in the small sect of Shi Zhenxu using the big beads as a weapon, known as Shaolin Luohan Fozhugong.

[LFJ]

The big beads don't really work that well as a weapon. I suppose you could make anything into a weapon - Jackie-Chan it, if you will - but having the beads be bigger doesn't really help that much.

I disagree. They are one of the most practical "weapons" from Shaolin (the only one I continue to practice with), particularly because they aren't a weapon per se and can be worn anywhere and are easy to turn into a instant, non-cumbersome, fast-wielding weapon. Having the beads bigger certainly doesn't help the one getting clocked with them that much!

[LFJ]

You can hardly tell how they come off... One moment it's being worn as an ordinary rosary necklace, the next moment it's in his hands and you don't want to be on the receiving end of it.

[curenado]

Bigger beads are for really important prayers 'cause they're bigger....
and apparently for knocking teeth out more precisely

[GeneChing]

I hadn't encountered that one before. Is it specifically for the big beads or is for any sized beads? If it is one that you continue to practice, we'd love to learn more. An article perhaps?

You make a good point on the big beads, but I would still match my metal beads against big wooden beads.

wiz cool c - Given the fundamental tenets of Buddhism, especially with in the minimalistic Chan school, big beads are paradoxical. China's take on it, particularly at modern Shaolin, has elements of what cultural anthropology call ludic recombination. The adornment of Chinese Buddhist abbots has gotten extreme at many temples - their fozhu are precious stone, their cassocks are highly decorated and bejeweled, their vajra staffs are works of art. I postulate that much of this descends from imperial support and as a reflection of medieval pop culture if you will, opera, folktales like Journey to the West (we all remember the value of Tripitika's cassock). The actual wearing of big beads is mostly limited to Chinese practitioners and the Chinese diaspora. I have seen big beads in Japanese culture, but they are used as altar objects, not worn. Japan's take on Chan, the Zen schools if you will, return to more minimalistic adornment. Shaolin is a really obtuse expression of Buddhism. That doesn't mean it's invalid by any means, but it is an outlier, and it's really shaping Chinese Buddhism in a dramatic way.

[wiz cool c]

Yes I understand. A lot of the normal temples in china are treated like tourist attractions, for people to visit on a holiday light a little incense and take pictures of themselves in a temple.

[LFJ]

I hadn't encountered that one before. Is it specifically for the big beads or is for any sized beads?

I was told the big beads were best, but he used regular sized beads to teach it. It actually works with any size, as long as you have a cord strong enough to withstand the sharp whipping actions. One set exploded and rained beads all over the room while we were training it, which led to an interesting Chan story time.

If it is one that you continue to practice, we'd love to learn more. An article perhaps?

I'll see what I can put together.

[MightyB]

[GeneChing]

...it's that intermittent reward that is the strongest reinforcement for behavior. At least, that's what Skinner sez...

I'll see what I can put together.

That would be really cool, LFJ. I hope you see it through and let me know if you need any resources or anything to support you on this (although clearly, you are ahead of me on this one). I should clarify that I have seen written outlines of forms that use Fozhu in some Shaolin books, but haven't seen anyone still doing it until now. I should have figured someone was. I wonder if this is the same form, but I can't remember offhand where I've seen that. I could narrow that down to a few books, but I moved to smaller place and put the bulk of my library in storage, so I can't access it easily at this time.

I know what you mean about mala strings. I've had plenty break on me and I just wear them. FYI, my metal set of mala (it's a necklace plus a matching bracelet) has a thick wire as a string. It's heavy gauge, so heavy that it does not bend so easily.

Note that we haven't done a Shaolin Special this year. For many years running, the Shaolin Special fell on the MAY+JUNE issue, but this year, it hasn't. I put those together organically, not by design. When there's enough Shaolin articles, I publish one, and by auspicious coincidence, they usually come in a neat cluster. There will be a Songshan Shaolin article in the upcoming MAY+JUNE, but just the one.