View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #14011
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I don't know, what do his current disciples say? was sin one of their classmates?
    I've emailed some people but haven't got a response yet. Sin The would have been a teenager at the time. And from what I heard didn't stay with the internal long because Ie got mad.

  2. #14012
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    This may be stirring things up a bit, but has anyone heard of a recent lawsuit between SKT and Jacob Rydberg? It was filed in the United States District Court, Central District of California?

  3. #14013

    Bullshido

    Quote Originally Posted by OldandUsed View Post
    This may be stirring things up a bit, but has anyone heard of a recent lawsuit between SKT and Jacob Rydberg? It was filed in the United States District Court, Central District of California?
    There was a poster on Bullshido who claimed to be the attorney who was going to do GMT's deposition in that case. He said he'd post a video or the transcript and never did. The filings in the case, which are public, are available from several online sources but you have to pay for them.

  4. #14014
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    Went over there and looked at the post, and the attached documents. I have to admit that it was enlightening and I was surprised at most of the information.

  5. #14015
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    Not even a link?

    You really gonna make us go to Crapshido for the info?
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  6. #14016
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    Go to bullshido. They got a huge banner graphic on the investigation of shaolin do. Read sin the's deposition. He admits it under oath he made up the majority of what he teaches. And then claims he didn't tell people he made up the forms because he didn't want to be boastful! I'm now wondering if there could be a class action lawsuit against him for theft by deception?

  7. #14017
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    http://www.bullshido.org/Sin_The

    this is a summary of the deposition. click on the full court document. it's 46 pages long. but very interesting reading.

  8. #14018
    Quote Originally Posted by OldandUsed View Post
    This may be stirring things up a bit, but has anyone heard of a recent lawsuit between SKT and Jacob Rydberg? It was filed in the United States District Court, Central District of California?
    I know, right?

  9. #14019
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    I just read the entire deposition and the order on the Barry Van Over case here in Knoxville. Very enlightening. High points; most all of the material from white through first brown was invented by Sin The after he came to America. He admitted that he has invented 37 or 40 more forms since then. No mention as to what forms these are. He maintains that most of the material he teaches is traditional kung fu taught to him by Master Ie. He directly answers some other questions such as denying that Master Ie was his grandfather and that he only remembers 300 some forms, but at one time knew 900.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  10. #14020
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    I still say people put way too much into choreography. But then they should not have been passed off as something they're not.

    Anyone (with sufficient training) can put together exercises, line drills, 2-man drills, forms, etc. Bottom line would be, are the moves themselves legit and/or traditional?
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  11. #14021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    I still say people put way too much into choreography. But then they should not have been passed off as something they're not.

    Anyone (with sufficient training) can put together exercises, line drills, 2-man drills, forms, etc. Bottom line would be, are the moves themselves legit and/or traditional?
    I agree. Because of the legalities, Sin The had to be careful how he said it. He was adamant that his teacher taught him traditional shaolin-kung fu, but since you can't copywrite traditional movement, he had to say the forms he created were not traditional. This was the same argument he made years ago in Tennessee. In fact he had Master Garry Mullins demonstrate the difference between the traditional and non-traditional moves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  12. #14022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    I agree. Because of the legalities, Sin The had to be careful how he said it. He was adamant that his teacher taught him traditional shaolin-kung fu, but since you can't copywrite traditional movement, he had to say the forms he created were not traditional. This was the same argument he made years ago in Tennessee. In fact he had Master Garry Mullins demonstrate the difference between the traditional and non-traditional moves.
    I was thinking today. Was he lying when he said he created the forms just so he could win the copy write case. If he remembered 300 forms then why create more?
    How did Mullins demonstrate the difference between traditional and non-traditional?
    And if Sin The made up most of the material we know, then what did he learn from Ie?

  13. #14023
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi warrior View Post
    I was thinking today. Was he lying when he said he created the forms just so he could win the copy write case. If he remembered 300 forms then why create more?
    How did Mullins demonstrate the difference between traditional and non-traditional?
    And if Sin The made up most of the material we know, then what did he learn from Ie?
    He said in his deposition that the traditional forms were too long and complicated to teach people so he created these forms to make it more simple for beginers. This begs the question why didn't he just teach the drills and excercises that go along and break things down without creating something from whole cloth?

    Apparently Mullins did a demo before the judge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  14. #14024
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    His certificate has what he learned from Ie. We can assume that. As to what else is there, I don't know. If Sin was telling the truth, then all of our lower belt material is fabricated. If he was lying to win a case, then can we trust anything? It's one thing to puff for advertising, its another to lie under oath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  15. #14025
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    His certificate has what he learned from Ie. We can assume that. As to what else is there, I don't know. If Sin was telling the truth, then all of our lower belt material is fabricated. If he was lying to win a case, then can we trust anything? It's one thing to puff for advertising, its another to lie under oath.
    people get used to a certain lifestyle. If he suddenly said "well yeah it's all ancient and I guess i don't really own any of it" think of how much money he'd lose. On the other hand I doubt he's lying about fabricating the stuff, but I would imagine it's not just lower belt stuff. I read the whole thing today and He seemed pretty unsure of what he wanted to claim as real/fake and what he didn't want to claim. He knew if he said "yeah only white belt - black was made up" then the teacher in the lawsuit would just say "fine i'll teach all the other stuff".

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