Jow for iron palm conditioning- needed, waste of time, or counterproductive?

[Dale Dugas]

I have had enough of this fool.

David, leave it be.

This net ghost is not worth the trouble.

Good luck in life, you are going to need it.

Watch out for those Western drugs as the side effects will get you.

[faxiapreta]

I have had enough of this fool.

I don't believe I called you any names. Don't call me any in the future.

Watch out for those Western drugs as the side effects will get you.

Thanks, but I try to stay away from those, also.

[faxiapreta]

Big Pharma has ridiculous amounts of drugs that are proven to do many things, and then people start dying, have rather serious side effects, and then the drugs are taken off the market.

Actually, that brings up another good point.

The Big Phama vs. the small time quacks.

Does Big Pharma have political influence and market drugs which sometimes turn out to be unsafe. Yes, without a doubt. However, it is at least under public scrutiny and is subject to testing and recall of damaging products.

Meanwhile, the small time quacks are not regulated and sneak under the radar, prescribing unsafe or ineffective remedies and cause more serious complications that then have to be treated by the drugs from Big Pharma.

Here's betting the small time quacks are responsible for more damage than Big Pharma.

[wenshu]

Important Safety Information

Some people have had changes in behavior, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions while using CHANTIX to help them quit smoking. Some people had these symptoms when they began taking CHANTIX, and others developed them after several weeks of treatment or after stopping CHANTIX. If you, your family, or caregiver notice agitation, hostility, depression, or changes in behavior, thinking, or mood that are not typical for you, or you develop suicidal thoughts or actions, anxiety, panic, aggression, anger, mania, abnormal sensations, hallucinations, paranoia, or confusion, stop taking CHANTIX and call your doctor right away. Also tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems before taking CHANTIX, as these symptoms may worsen while taking CHANTIX.

Do not take CHANTIX if you have had a serious allergic or skin reaction to CHANTIX. Some people can have serious skin reactions while taking CHANTIX, some of which can become life-threatening. These can include rash, swelling, redness, and peeling of the skin. Some people can have allergic reactions to CHANTIX, some of which can be life-threatening and include: swelling of the face, mouth, and throat that can cause trouble breathing. If you have these symptoms or have a rash with peeling skin or blisters in your mouth, stop taking CHANTIX and get medical attention right away.

The most common side effects include nausea (30%), sleep problems, constipation, gas and/or vomiting. If you have side effects that bother you or don't go away, tell your doctor. You may have trouble sleeping, vivid, unusual or strange dreams while taking CHANTIX. Use caution driving or operating machinery until you know how CHANTIX may affect you.

CHANTIX should not be taken with other quit-smoking products. You may need a lower dose of CHANTIX if you have kidney problems or get dialysis.

Before starting CHANTIX, tell your doctor if you are pregnant, plan to become pregnant, or if you take insulin, asthma medicines, or blood thinners. Medicines like these may work differently when you quit smoking.

Gabapentin
you should know that your mental health may change in unexpected ways and you may become suicidal (thinking about harming or killing yourself or planning or trying to do so) while you are taking gabapentin for the treatment of epilepsy, mental illness, or other conditions. A small number of adults and children 5 years of age and older (about 1 in 500 people) who took antiepileptics such as gabapentin to treat various conditions during clinical studies became suicidal during their treatment. Some of these people developed suicidal thoughts and behavior as early as one week after they started taking the medication. There is a risk that you may experience changes in your mental health if you take an antiepileptic medication such as gabapentin, but there may also be a risk that you will experience changes in your mental health if your condition is not treated. You and your doctor will decide whether the risks of taking an antiepileptic medication are greater than the risks of not taking the medication. You, your family, or your caregiver should call your doctor right away if you experience any of the following symptoms: panic attacks; agitation or restlessness; new or worsening irritability, anxiety, or depression; acting on dangerous impulses; difficulty falling or staying asleep; aggressive, angry, or violent behavior; mania (frenzied, abnormally excited mood); talking or thinking about wanting to hurt yourself or end your life; withdrawing from friends and family; preoccupation with death and dying; giving away prized possessions; or any other unusual changes in behavior or mood. Be sure that your family or caregiver knows which symptoms may be serious so they can call the doctor if you are unable to seek treatment on your own.

MIRAPEX ER or MIRAPEX may cause you to fall asleep without warning during daily activities, including talking, eating, and driving, which may result in accidents. Tell your doctor if you feel new or increased sleepiness while taking MIRAPEX ER or MIRAPEX. Do not drive a car, operate a machine, or do anything that needs you to be alert until you know how MIRAPEX ER or MIRAPEX affects you.
Before taking MIRAPEX ER or MIRAPEX, talk to your doctor about all of your medical conditions, including if you feel sleepy during the day. Tell your doctor if you drink alcohol or take other medications that make you drowsy, as these can increase the chance that MIRAPEX ER or MIRAPEX will make you feel sleepy or fall asleep when you should be awake.
When taking MIRAPEX ER or MIRAPEX, hallucinations (unreal visions, sounds or sensations) may occur and you may sometimes feel dizzy, nauseated, faint or sweaty when you sit up or stand quickly.
Some patients taking certain medicines to treat PD, including MIRAPEX ER and MIRAPEX, have reported problems, such as gambling, compulsive eating, compulsive buying, and increased sex drive. If you or your family members notice that you are developing unusual urges or behaviors, talk to your doctor.
The most common side effects in people taking MIRAPEX ER for early PD are sleepiness, nausea and vomiting, constipation, dizziness, tiredness, hallucinations, dry mouth, muscle spasms, and edema (swelling of the feet and ankles).
The most common side effects in people taking MIRAPEX ER who have later-stage PD are abnormal movements, nausea, constipation, hallucinations, headache, and anorexia.
The most common side effects in people taking MIRAPEX for PD are nausea, dizziness, sleepiness, constipation, hallucinations, insomnia, muscle weakness, confusion, and abnormal movements.

[alchemist]

DMSO is not all that safe, and if it was, you would see it used more. It is controversial to say the least.

I am a little nervous as certain new members keep posting about it.

NEVER mix DMSO with anything as it will take whatever has been dissolved in it and help it cross through the skin into the blood.

This is extremely dangerious, and needs to be addressed here.

Never use DMSO to make Dit Da Jow, period. The herbs dissolved in alcohol and water are a much better, and safer medium to use than DMSO.

You cannot control how much of a substance/chemical/substrate will be absorbed through the skin into the blood stream.

For the people who keep posting its uses, stop. You are not health care professionals.

Yes... I did not mention, as I should have, that the external usage of DMSO increases the ability of anything mixed with it to be absorbed by the skin. So for example, if you added some kind of skin lotion to it (because DMSO smells weird) then you would be absorbing all the nasty chemicals in the lotion far more efficiently. And no... Mixing it with jow would be a risky venture...

Having said that, there is a great deal of anecdotal evidence for its benefits when being externally used as an anti-inflammatory. It has never been tested in a double-blind study because it is too difficult to formulate a placebo with the same smell and taste. I imagine that there is little interest in it pharmaceutically because it is an unpatentable basic chemical compound.

There have been less rigorous studies of it and no appreciable toxicity level has ever been found.

Perhaps I was too enthusiastic in my mention of it.

I don't think though we have to be health care professionals to talk about a positive or negative health-related experience. If so, this entire thread would not exist.

I think anecdotal evidence is valid. It is part of the power of Chinese herbs. They have been keeping written records for so long that a great deal of empirical knowledge about what works and what doesn't has been stored. So...

Some Jow formulas do work and rather well. We don't need a pharmaceutical double-blind study because we have thousands of years of written case studies in Chinese herbal medicine literature to back up the uses of Chinese herbs.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Why is everyone having so much trouble finding scientific writings on Jow?

I googled ONE ingredient common to most Jows and in 0.19 seconds, a scientific review popped up at the top of page one.

In that published review, the conclusion was that Gu Sui Bu does in fact have potential effects on the bone cells culture

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12099280

My search was "Topical Gu Sui Bu"

Need I say more?

[David Jamieson]

Why is everyone having so much trouble finding scientific writings on Jow?

I googled ONE ingredient common to most Jows and in 0.19 seconds, a scientific review popped up at the top of page one.

In that published review, the conclusion was that Gu Sui Bu does in fact have potential effects on the bone cells culture

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12099280

My search was "Topical Gu Sui Bu"

Need I say more?

No not at all.
I think what's at issue is that this guy is just a troll making statements and avoiding truth.
nothing new really is it?

[faxiapreta]

Yes... I did not mention, as I should have, that the external usage of DMSO increases the ability of anything mixed with it to be absorbed by the skin. So for example, if you added some kind of skin lotion to it (because DMSO smells weird) then you would be absorbing all the nasty chemicals in the lotion far more efficiently. And no... Mixing it with jow would be a risky venture....

Mixing jow with DMSO would be a risky venture, but rubbing it on the skin so that it will be absorbed into the skin is not a risky venture?

Do you see the problem with this line of thinking?

[faxiapreta]

Why is everyone having so much trouble finding scientific writings on Jow?

I googled ONE ingredient common to most Jows and in 0.19 seconds, a scientific review popped up at the top of page one.

In that published review, the conclusion was that Gu Sui Bu does in fact have potential effects on the bone cells culture

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12099280

My search was "Topical Gu Sui Bu"

Need I say more?

LOL... did you actually read the abstract and understand what they were doing?

They were adding Gu-Sui-Bu directly to rat bone cells in a culture. Do you understand what that means? That means they took rat bone cells, put them in a culture dish and added Gu-Sui-Bu into that culture.

Adding a chemical to a bone cell culture is 180 degrees different that rubbing in on human skin as part of a jow mixture. If you wanted to extrapolate and use this study as a basis for application, you would have to inject Gu-Sui-Bu directly into your bones.

This study shows zero correlation to rubbing Gu-Sui-Bu into a human's skin.

Critical thinking folks. Something that should be taught in high school, but apparently isn't.

[hskwarrior]

They were adding Gu-Sui-Bu directly to rat bone cells in a culture. Do you understand what that means? That means they took rat bone cells, put them in a culture dish and added Gu-Sui-Bu into that culture.

LOL at repeating yourself.

[faxiapreta]

LOL at repeating yourself.

Just a little repetition to make it sink in. Considering he seemed to miss it in the abstract.

[wenshu]

You overestimate your own critical thinking abilities.

The fundamental basis of critical thinking is the ability to question one's own assumptions, prejudices and motivations.

Fanatical adherence to a predetermined agenda precludes critical thinking of any sort.

Be clear, it does not matter what "proof" anyone offers you, you will reject it outright all the while pontificating about "skeptical critical thinking" in order to conform to your own agenda.

You can cloak yourself in the language of Pyrrhonistic skepticism all you want, but you are just as misguided and fanatical as Wong Kiew Kit and his followers.
You're entire argument is predicated on some presumed infallibility of the scientific method.

Seriously though, what happened? Did a TCM specialist finger fuck your cat or something?

Why are you consumed with this need to convince the 4 or 5 people who read this forum that you are some champion of skepticism? Especially with regards to something as minuscule and obscure as IP?

Maybe PTSD from being repeatedly choked out with your face buried in some other dude's fermented urine, feces and sweat reeking taint?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Seriously though, what heppened? Did a TCM specialist finger **** your cat or something?

Classic

[David Jamieson]

You overestimate your own critical thinking abilities.

The fundamental basis of critical thinking is the ability to question one's own assumptions, prejudices and motivations.

Fanatical adherence to a predetermined agenda precludes critical thinking of any sort.

Be clear, it does not matter what "proof" anyone offers you, you will reject it outright all the while pontificating about "skeptical critical thinking" in order to conform to your own agenda.

You can cloak yourself in the language of Pyrrhonistic skepticism all you want, but you are just as misguided and fanatical as Wong Kiew Kit and his followers.
You're entire argument is predicated on some presumed infallibility of the scientific method.

Seriously though, what happened? Did a TCM specialist finger fuck your cat or something?

Why are you consumed with this need to convince the 4 or 5 people who read this forum that you are some champion of skepticism? Especially with regards to something as minuscule and obscure as IP?

Maybe PTSD from being repeatedly choked out with your face buried in some other dude's fermented urine, feces and sweat reeking taint?

To be fair, you are gonna have him using a dictionary just to try and absorb that...

lol

[JamesC]

To be fair, you are gonna have him using a dictionary just to try and absorb that...

lol

No kidding. I'm on dictionary.com right now trying to decipher. Too highbrow for me