Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: The Ving Tsun of GM Ip Man

  1. #1

    The Ving Tsun of GM Ip Man

    I have been sharing, of late, an opinion I've believed for decades. It's cannon that Ip Man had at least two distinct periods of VT training. What I don't believe is that he had partiality in his knowledge. I was asked to clarify my comment of 'street' versions of VT. South China was a Scrappy place students were teaching students and some remarkble if not Kung Fu high tech fighting was being forged. One more familiar would be Seattle born wing Chun do. Or,as it was known before Jun Fan Boxing
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 04-03-2017 at 09:24 AM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  2. #2
    So this thread can be really fun. Do any of you older dogs remember some of the HK wing Chun feuds??? Ironically these childish expressions​ gave away a great deal of know
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    2,662
    We know Ip Man studied with Chan Wah Shun as a child and CWS died pretty early on. So CWS's student Ng Chung So took over teaching Ip Man and was really the one that taught him the majority of his Wing Chun. Ip Man was also friends with Yuen Kay Shan, who was older than him. Their families were from the same social circle. It is said that Ip Man, Yuen Kay Shan, and Yip Choi were all friends and hung out together. They were known as the "Three Tigers of Foshan." So it stands to reason they would do some training together and exchange ideas and techniques. So I believe that Yuen Kay Shan's Wing Chun was a pretty big influence on Ip Man. It is also said that Ip Man studied with Leung Bik, who was said to be Leung Jan's son. But this has never been substantiated. From everything I've read and seen, I would put my money on Ng Chung So and Yuen Kay Shan being the biggest influences on Ip Man's Wing Chun. Then he, of course, changed things to suit himself based on his own experience.

    I've never heard anything about any "street" versions of Wing Chun being a factor. And Ip Man never studied Ku Lo Pin Sun Wing Chun. He may have known the Weng Chun guys at Dai Duk Lan and been familiar with what they did, but I don't think they really influenced his own Wing Chun.

    I also don't believe the story William Cheung has told about Ip Man learning Traditional Wing Chun from Leung Bik and then teaching it only to him.

  4. #4
    -----------------------------------------------------

    A muddled thread riddled with fiction

    YKS influence on Ip Man? Nonsense

    IP man himsef said that he learned from Leung Bik and that what he learned from Leung Bik
    was much more concept based and complete. The details in CWS, YKS and Ip Man's wing chun
    are striking.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tainan ,Taiwan
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    -----------------------------------------------------

    A muddled thread riddled with fiction

    YKS influence on Ip Man? Nonsense

    IP man himsef said that he learned from Leung Bik and that what he learned from Leung Bik
    was much more concept based and complete. The details in CWS, YKS and Ip Man's wing chun
    are striking.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yip Man himself was a trustworthy person, jukie and gambler who abandoned his own childer to save his ass . Everything he said must be 100% true

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    2,662
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    -----------------------------------------------------

    A muddled thread riddled with fiction

    YKS influence on Ip Man? Nonsense

    IP man himsef said that he learned from Leung Bik and that what he learned from Leung Bik
    was much more concept based and complete. The details in CWS, YKS and Ip Man's wing chun
    are striking.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

    It is a muddled topic from the start. Not "muddled thread." When Ip Man wrote an article about the history of Wing Chun for publication, he mentioned nothing about Leung Bik. People around in that era have said that the Leung Bik story was added later. And its not even clear that Ip Man was the one that added it.

    If you have details of CWS's Wing Chun, I've love to hear about them! Do you have a source or reference? Because the Wing Chun taught later by his son likely has many additions and embellishments and not at all what his father taught.

    However, if you compare the Wing Chun that Ip Man taught early on in Foshan and to Leung Sheung in HK, there are many similarities to YKS Wing Chun. Now that may very well be because the Wing Chun taught to both Ip Man and YKS was very similar from the start! So its hard to say. But given the passion for Wing Chun that Ip Man displayed, does anyone really believe that if he was hanging out with and friends with another Wing Chun guy like YKS that had a good reputation of his own, was senior to Ip Man, and came from another branch of the tree....that Ip man wouldn't have exchanged with and learned from him??

    As far as Leung Bik. Someone turned up photos of both Leung Jan and Leung Bik a couple of years back but I've never read that these were actually authenticated in any way. People have gone back and tried to find traces of Leung Bik in HK and turned up nothing. This lead to the idea that Leung Bik may have been a nick-name. Some have said it was actually Fung Wah, who was a student of Leung Jan in Foshan, but not his son. So there is that possibility. As noted, it is a somewhat "muddled" topic!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tainan ,Taiwan
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    It is a muddled topic from the start. Not "muddled thread." When Ip Man wrote an article about the history of Wing Chun for publication, he mentioned nothing about Leung Bik. People around in that era have said that the Leung Bik story was added later. And its not even clear that Ip Man was the one that added it.

    If you have details of CWS's Wing Chun, I've love to hear about them! Do you have a source or reference? Because the Wing Chun taught later by his son likely has many additions and embellishments and not at all what his father taught.

    However, if you compare the Wing Chun that Ip Man taught early on in Foshan and to Leung Sheung in HK, there are many similarities to YKS Wing Chun. Now that may very well be because the Wing Chun taught to both Ip Man and YKS was very similar from the start! So its hard to say. But given the passion for Wing Chun that Ip Man displayed, does anyone really believe that if he was hanging out with and friends with another Wing Chun guy like YKS that had a good reputation of his own, was senior to Ip Man, and came from another branch of the tree....that Ip man wouldn't have exchanged with and learned from him??

    As far as Leung Bik. Someone turned up photos of both Leung Jan and Leung Bik a couple of years back but I've never read that these were actually authenticated in any way. People have gone back and tried to find traces of Leung Bik in HK and turned up nothing. This lead to the idea that Leung Bik may have been a nick-name. Some have said it was actually Fung Wah, who was a student of Leung Jan in Foshan, but not his son. So there is that possibility. As noted, it is a somewhat "muddled" topic!
    Leung Jan's photo is clearly tombstone photo ,so the question is , why thake a photo of a photo and not the whole grave site and name on the tombstone , so everyone can see what name is on it , if that is leung jan . About Leung Bik , people now talking his grandso lives in HK but it is impossible to locate that person . It is interesting how far people are ready to go to keep the appearance of their believes true . It is also how easily people look over the fact that Yip Man was a racist( and some other things) . People just say ,, he was a man of his time ". Hitler was also a man of his time but that does not make fascism right .

  8. #8
    What I'm trying to point out is, in Ip Man VT of the children of this lineage have a secret yet dissertated. A way of applying this science that is not totally obvious. As for racism, yes people were, to an extent products of their time. When nationism was concern . I remember reminding some one here about the racism of the great author Sam Clemens. Progress is not an even process.
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 04-05-2017 at 01:16 PM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  9. #9
    There was a saying at the VTAA that echos to this day...' You cannot go between floors.' I wonder Why?
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tainan ,Taiwan
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    What I'm trying to point out is, in Ip Man VT of the children of this lineage have a secret yet dissertated. A way of applying this science that is not totally obvious. As for racism, yes people were, to an extent products of their time. When nationism was concern . I remember reminding some one here about the racism of the great author Sam Clemens. Progress is not an even process.
    First two senteces you wrote I totally do not understand . As for racism , it is not product of its time , and even if it was that still doesn't make it right .Just one example ,Sum Nung , who is same generation as Yip Man had "white devils" as students during 60's , many teachers from Taiwan (previously escaped from China) went overseas and taugtht openly much before Bruce started . So ,Yip Man was a racist , period . About nationalsm , that is never cause for racism , most europen people are nationalists , loving your nation does not make you hate others , makes you respect and understand others .

  11. #11
    Too bad you are hung up on that. I could use some experience I thought you had .I have concidered what you say but you revieal you know little of what I am referring to.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  12. #12
    If you want to waist time ... Seems like a popular pass time here. ****, I'm not looking for this kind of info. You have shown ....My wife says I need to go to sleep.
    .
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  13. #13
    I'm looking for info, not trying to import info. This is not my place for advance.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    First two senteces you wrote I totally do not understand . As for racism , it is not product of its time , and even if it was that still doesn't make it right .Just one example ,Sum Nung , who is same generation as Yip Man had "white devils" as students during 60's , many teachers from Taiwan (previously escaped from China) went overseas and taugtht openly much before Bruce started . So ,Yip Man was a racist , period . About nationalsm , that is never cause for racism , most europen people are nationalists , loving your nation does not make you hate others , makes you respect and understand others .
    Ok , I'm Canadian. I agree​, I don't always get this feeling.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ᏌᏂᎭᎢ, ᏥᎾ
    Posts
    3,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    As for racism, yes people were, to an extent products of their time. When nationism was concern .
    Sadly, we are still in those times!

    If living in China has taught me anything, it's that many Chinese are among the most openly racists people alive!

    Every TV channel has shows all day long about them killing Japanese from "little Japan". They even hate darker versions of themselves, the countryfolk who build their cities, and you should see the way Hong Kong people talk about Mainlanders. It's despicable.

    The funny thing is, most of the HKers are still ethnically Chinese, but they talk about how terrible "Chinese" people are while claiming to be British, even though the Queen abandoned them!

    The worst part, though, is that they have no shame in being openly racist. It really makes you sick to your stomach, the way they act and treat one another.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •