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Thread: Benny Meng

  1. Interesting...but hasnt fabricating a convoluted history always been a mainstay of the Chinese martial arts,we have all heard stories of some grand teacher learning from a secluded monk/animals fight/dream sequence etc,yet we train in these systems whole heartedly,Dong Hai Quans Bagua,even Wing Chuns legend of Yim Wing Chun/Ng Mui/Snake and Crane fighting, to name a few, all sound like olden days marketing strategies.

    Objectively what Benny Meng and the other gent put together seem like a very useful system on its own merit.Benny seems to have spent a long time in training in Wing Chun and he seems to have the skill and the understanding to go with it.
    I'm not condoning the stories behind this Black /Red Flag etc controversy, but in the end the proof of the pudding is in its eating and they seem to have something there! having said that they should market it as their own creation rather than something old and unique.

    But then again Chinese tradition and Confucian thought all point to something old and handed down by elders as being the 'real deal'.Would anyone bother to learn a system if it was said to be a creation of the Sifu or his teacher,thats just bad marketing!****ed if you do and ****ed if you dont!

    Having said all that I have no interest whatsoever in Wing Chun as I am a Southern Mantis practitioner.
    The "Old" Yang style of Taiji
    Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu

  2. #62
    Join Date
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    Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakua4581 View Post
    .Benny seems to have spent a long time in training in Wing Chun and he seems to have the skill and the understanding to go with it.
    Haha, and there's the rub
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 06-29-2012 at 12:07 PM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  3. I guess if a student of this method gets to walk away after a violent mugging and gets to have dinner with his/her family,then 'Flags' and history would be the last thing they would be mulling over......

    Anyway,just call it Flag Kune Do or something and let the Wing Chun community get on with their lives
    The "Old" Yang style of Taiji
    Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu

  4. #64
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    far east, north america
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    Is the VTM really a WCK museum or something else?

    As a matter of fact, there is but one Black Flag guy in Southern Brazil, a guy from Sao Paulo, who, in spite of being aware that it's a recent fabrication, decided to remain in Lin's organization for particular reasons.

    Benny's representative in Brazil is a guy from the North. More than that, he's Benny's business partner, so he keeps his men, who, as a rule, have no good command of English, unaware of the facts.
    Life can be very strange!

    For the sake of Wing Chun Kuen, somebody should stop making sand castles and show some respect to the wing chun community.
    I second to that.

    Do you really have to ask, about convenience over integrity?

    Ironically, the VTM was originally Moy Yat’s idea but then GM Moy Yat withdrew his support & trust. In the Wing Chun world and from a museum point of view, the VTM is shady.

    Moy Yat’s students, Williams Cheung’s student and GM Cheung share similar opinions, see “Any Master Benney Meng students?” thread.
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=45016
    Moy Yat must have had some good reason to withdraw his support for the VTM.

  5. #65
    Pakua I understand your pov. For me some people only have legend passed down but it's different when truth is known and available to negate "legend". I assume many people who can walk away from a confrontation would be thankful. However don't kid yourself unless you done enough reflex and focus training because when it happens only what you spend the most time on is what will come out.

    Another reality I would not ignore that most people who start or like something they think is real and legit then find out its fake feel cheated.

    Example: in 80's people liked Milli Vanilli until they found out they were frauds. What happen then? When the truth come out then people rejected them.

    Or when people find out athletes use steroids then the people no longer support them because they are fake.

    The question I think is about honesty and integrity to community. Community benefit or take advantage of community?

    Watch these videos and see for yourself the pieces of the puzzle.

    Part 1:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQQN1...hannel&list=UL

    Part 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqiA...feature=relmfu

  6. #66
    Has Kenneth Lin ever made a direct statement of who his VT sifu was in the 90's in Vancouver? Ours was the only WSLVT in Vancouver then and most other VT clubs and sifu visited us often since it was a chinese kung fu supply store.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    Has Kenneth Lin ever made a direct statement of who his VT sifu was in the 90's in Vancouver? Ours was the only WSLVT in Vancouver then and most other VT clubs and sifu visited us often since it was a chinese kung fu supply store.
    I don't think he has. I wonder if he even trained it there, or if he started when he went back to Indonesia?

  8. #68
    Happy Tiger what indication have you found saying Lin learned Wing Chun in Vancouver? All I could find he did not learn VT/WC in Vancouver. He learned the Vikoga style WC from Chung Che Man in Surayaba, Indonesia on or after 2000.

    One instance he say it was '92 when he met his first WC Sifu but never mention his name. Then in 2003 he mention on VTM guest book he is grand student of Victor Leow who is Chung Che Man Sifu - who he met year 2000. Which is it? CCM only verifiable trace.

    He rewrote and edit a lot of older website data to cover his tracks and change identity over and over, every time he learn some new online kung fu asking for info and videos but smart people already revealed his mistakes.
    Last edited by Jeff_H; 07-01-2012 at 11:47 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
    Pakua I understand your pov. For me some people only have legend passed down but it's different when truth is known and available to negate "legend". I assume many people who can walk away from a confrontation would be thankful. However don't kid yourself unless you done enough reflex and focus training because when it happens only what you spend the most time on is what will come out.

    Another reality I would not ignore that most people who start or like something they think is real and legit then find out its fake feel cheated.

    Example: in 80's people liked Milli Vanilli until they found out they were frauds. What happen then? When the truth come out then people rejected them.

    Or when people find out athletes use steroids then the people no longer support them because they are fake.

    The question I think is about honesty and integrity to community. Community benefit or take advantage of community?

    Watch these videos and see for yourself the pieces of the puzzle.

    Part 1:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQQN1...hannel&list=UL

    Part 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqiA...feature=relmfu
    Spoke to a 5 ancestor fist master(official successor to his lineage in malaysia)

    In the 5 ancestors it is written to be
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ancestors

    the breathing methods and iron body of Da mo (達尊拳)
    the posture and dynamic power of Luohan (羅漢拳)
    the precision and efficient movement of Emperor Taizu (太祖拳)
    the hand techniques and the complementary softness and hardness of Fujian White Crane (白鶴拳)
    the agility and footwork of Monkey (猴拳)

    He tells me this is inaccurate

    Actually the 2 of these above are the same ancestor, I do not remember taixu and luohan or da mo and luo han

    But the 5th ancestor is the so called sixth influence in the wiki; Xuan Nu also known as Hian Loo(玄女拳).'The Lady in the Green Dress,' - a very soft art

    HKB calls the mysterious female fist kungfu could it be actually the 5th ancestor of 5 ancestor fist Xuan Nu also known as Hian Loo(玄女拳).'The Lady in the Green Dress,'

    seems to be the same story

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqiA...feature=relmfu
    Last edited by Shadow_warrior8; 07-02-2012 at 02:27 AM.
    讲你不听,听你不明,明你不做,做你又做错,错你又不认,认你又不改,改你又不服,不服你又不讲;那你要我 怎么办?

  10. Ive gone through all the 'debunking' links in detail....

    I have also seen this;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKfsMjZ7r5U

    This clip shows some very well developed Fajing/Ging,having said that the training form also looked like either White Crane or Fan Zhuang Quan Southern Praying Mantis,both systems that are taught in Indonesia.

    If he added the internal training of these systems to Wing Chun,then he would definitely have a powerful end product,which seems to be the case here.I think this is a positive development.

    Its also hilarious that a Sifu who a few years ago was calling himself 'Grandmaster" (as a 30 something) and who has his own 'Brand" name wing chun is leading the debunking mission, a Pot calling the Kettle Black!!!
    The "Old" Yang style of Taiji
    Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu

  11. #71
    Ooops! I see, through some Italian videos, that now it's called "Shaolin" Hek Ki Boen...
    That would make their brand new style older than Wing Chun, wouldn't that?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakua4581 View Post
    Ive gone through all the 'debunking' links in detail....

    I have also seen this;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKfsMjZ7r5U

    This clip shows some very well developed Fajing/Ging,having said that the training form also looked like either White Crane or Fan Zhuang Quan Southern Praying Mantis,both systems that are taught in Indonesia.

    If he added the internal training of these systems to Wing Chun,then he would definitely have a powerful end product,which seems to be the case here.I think this is a positive development.

    Its also hilarious that a Sifu who a few years ago was calling himself 'Grandmaster" (as a 30 something) and who has his own 'Brand" name wing chun is leading the debunking mission, a Pot calling the Kettle Black!!!
    The clips he shows hand techniques very close to
    5 ancestor Fist(which has white crane)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvw9-...eature=related
    And Fukien White crane
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFjhW...eature=related
    讲你不听,听你不明,明你不做,做你又做错,错你又不认,认你又不改,改你又不服,不服你又不讲;那你要我 怎么办?

  13. #73
    According to his teacher, master Tio Tek Kwie, what Lin learnt from the supposed "Hek Ki Boen" school was NOT Winf Chun, but a martial art known as Cap Pwi Lohan Jiu (She Ba Lohan So), or 18 Hands of Lohan, a mix of a few Hakka Kung Fu styles. That's the reason for the resemblance with 5 ancestors, white crane etc.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo-RJ View Post
    Ooops! I see, through some Italian videos, that now it's called "Shaolin" Hek Ki Boen...
    That would make their brand new style older than Wing Chun, wouldn't that?


    All of these legend made up is a creation starting late 1990. It started at the wing Chun mail list and the book complete wing Chun era. It is not just Benny but many other so called Grandmaster today also did the same things.


    What happen is in that era, in the discussion in the WCML , hung mun or tian tee hui was reveal to the public.

    Thus, people started to link WCK with hung mun or tian tee hui to WCK. And then the shaolin Lin moves type of jee shim shao lin legend also got brought in, and the somehow Ip Chun endorse Pan Nam's story on Tan Sau Ng who is the red boat opera player.

    So, if one dig out the trace of WCML and how these different lineges evolve thier history , one can see what is going on clearly





    The blind sport at 1990 is that these people who made his story are:

    1. they don't know WCK involve in up raising is in 1850 era. Not at the late 1600 to early 1700 era of burning of shaolin Lin which they think.

    2. Tan sau Ng also is belongs to the late 1600 era.

    3. There is a trace able Path via the technical uniqueness path in tcma and Chinese history which could be clearly identify and trace.





    So, these people, due to wanting their WCK is the most olderst, jump into relating itself to shaolin Lin burning, tian tee hui, tan sau Ng.

    And for decades, since then they cannot fully cover their story, thus, their story always needs to evolve when different issues raises. It has been a decade like that , one can trace it and sees for oneself.

    Vtm starts with claiming the red boat WCK as a watery down version of original WCK or Hung fa yi WCK , as the article in kung fu magazine and the published book the mastering of wing Chun are the evidence of that early verion of their history.

    Vtm get into white crane because to make its his-story believe able , it link up with white crane of fujian, since the white crane of fujian is the art could be found in late 1600 era. However, instead of true fujian white crane they get into NGO Cho which Is a derivation of white crane of fujian.
    there is where the Hkm tragic developed.

    And others stick at shaolin Lin and tan sau Ng continous to evolve their his story. Some even get hung gar involve .





    However, due to they missed the era of the WCK related with the lee man mau, tai ping heavenly kingdom, hung mun uprising in 1850 , these his story they had made up is based on late 1600 , there is aways a gap in time line and in their story which they needs to evolve or touch up every so many years to package thier history. Not to mention the evolve of WCK with tian ti hui has said nothing about tain ti hui or hung Hun created WCK. So, these people us betting their hs story with some legend and some their own creativity.

    And that has happen since then, if one take the history one describe in complete WCK , as a reference, the look at thier today's version of history, there one can see how much things has evolved.


    History is like some one ask who is your great great grandfather to your grand father family tree. If one knows one will say the same thing 100 years ago and 100 years later. Not keep evolving the list and have a never ending never complete fine tune. When a history doesn't settle and the sets one teaches doesnt settle. That is the indication of uncertainty.





    On the other hand, there is a solid technological history path with is based on the technological uniqueness of the art. Since nothing comes out of the thin air, with the technology path basic elements of wck can be traced very accurately to the mother sources.


    Speak about the Hkm WCK, it is out of mind not to see those type of NGO cho hard style fajing doesn't fit siu Lin tau practice.

    It is also out of mind to against white crane of fujian to claim the WCK history as from shaolin Lin as in other his story.

    Also, it is out of the mind not to see all these so called shaolin Lin era original WCK has Gm Ip man signature in thier siu Lin tau or advance siu Lin tau sets. When is Gm Ip man becomes the original creator of WCK? Where his signature is an evidence of his own evolution ?





    Take a look at this from china by the true tcma experts
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exvi3-ko6HI

    Don't you want to know why this art technically close to WCK?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnM49Y_IF0M

    See for yourself is it shaolin , NGO cho , or what it is?





    Truth always speak for itself , because what exist aways leave a trace. People will find out. It is only a matter of time. And education.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-02-2012 at 07:43 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
    Happy Tiger what indication have you found saying Lin learned Wing Chun in Vancouver? All I could find he did not learn VT/WC in Vancouver. He learned the Vikoga style WC from Chung Che Man in Surayaba, Indonesia on or after 2000.

    One instance he say it was '92 when he met his first WC Sifu but never mention his name. Then in 2003 he mention on VTM guest book he is grand student of Victor Leow who is Chung Che Man Sifu - who he met year 2000. Which is it? CCM only verifiable trace.

    He rewrote and edit a lot of older website data to cover his tracks and change identity over and over, every time he learn some new online kung fu asking for info and videos but smart people already revealed his mistakes.
    None what so ever. At least not formally. Certainly not anything remotely like what I see now from him. I felt he was more a 'fan' of VT after touching hands. I have also read that he met his first VT sifu in the early 90's. I can't imagine who that would be,but I can ask around my circles. How does anybody become a grand master of anything after a scant 10 years?
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

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