Boxing and Wing Chun

[Jeff Bussey]

oh hey,
I just looked at the site I just put up and check out the defense against the jab video. On another thread I had mentioned boxing having something like a pak and that was what I was talking about.

Anyways, That's it

J

[YungChun]

oh hey,
I just looked at the site I just put up and check out the defense against the jab video. On another thread I had mentioned boxing having something like a pak and that was what I was talking about.

Which one? The block, the parry or the catch?

I think there are inherent similarities, but if you get very specific, and I think you have to then IMO there are some significant differences, in timing, position and body movement/mechanics..

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey Yung Chun

Which one? The block, the parry or the catch?

I think there are inherent similarities, but if you get very specific, and I think you have to then IMO there are some significant differences, in timing, position and body movement/mechanics..

I was talking about the catch. They're not identical, but they are close enough to compare to ving tsun. And to be honest, I think people who haven't seen it before, it may open there eyes a little on another way how to use your pak

J

[YungChun]

I think people who haven't seen it before, it may open there eyes a little on another way how to use your pak

Interesting..

In terms of range, timing, energy or other?

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey Yung Chun

Interesting..

In terms of range, timing, energy or other?

Yes.
A lot of people when they pak, I find that they put too much energy into it, which slows them down. If you look at how he does the catch (from a ving tsun point of view) he doesn't have to put all kinds of hip into his pak, he's definitely judging his distance properly, he's staying on the outside of the punch and he's maintained his center.
Now, this type of 'pak' would be great to use to pick and choose your shot.

The example that I gave on the other thread, is that after I did the pak/catch I punched over the punching arm before he had time to bring it back.

J

[YungChun]

A lot of people when they pak, I find that they put too much energy into it, which slows them down. If you look at how he does the catch (from a ving tsun point of view) he doesn't have to put all kinds of hip into his pak, he's definitely judging his distance properly, he's staying on the outside of the punch and he's maintained his center.
Now, this type of 'pak' would be great to use to pick and choose your shot.

The example that I gave on the other thread, is that after I did the pak/catch I punched over the punching arm before he had time to bring it back.

Well, I mean there are all kinds of variations.. What you describe is something I do but normally I consider it a fault on my part. I would prefer to enter with it and use body connection in order to gain connection and initiate disruption.

The problem IMO for both boxers using this and WCK folks is when dealing with a fast jab (much easier on a lazy jab).. It can be very hard to time using visual cues.. And is why IMO you just don't see the timing we look for too often when the opponent has a snappy fast and powerful jab. Of course then you have other options for pak-da used as a second action..

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey Yung Chun

The problem IMO for both boxers using this and WCK folks is when dealing with a fast jab (much easier on a lazy jab).. It can be very hard to time using visual cues.. And is why IMO you just don't see the timing we look for too often when the opponent has a snappy fast and powerful jab. Of couse then you have other options for pak-da used as a second action..

I'm not sure if I've been clear, but I didn't say that you should replace your ving tsun pak sao with this. I'm just offering another way to look at it. It's a situational thing, and fun to play with. If someone has a fast and powerful jab, they're going to be a handful and I'd want to be on the outside of that, come in when I see something, do what I can and get back out again.

See the problem with coming out too far to catch the punch is that your hand is away from protecting you for too long, so for us to do a pak like in ving tsun in a boxing match, we'd probably get hit. I was just trying to bridge our pak with their catch.
It's not a perfect comparison by any means

J

[sanjuro_ronin]

Like you said in one of your post, that the pad work that I do is more advanced, and that I should slow it down a bit and go basic, which is true but he already had fight experience before he meet me…

And it is much, much harder to do especially if one just started… But I still find it odd that you’re still analyzing, especially when your not fan or care for it at all… Well I guess we have to start somewhere don’t we…

That’s cool, but I thought you didn’t care for pad work or was not even a fan, and now your analyzing…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbh1yCx7rfE


Take care,


Ali Rahim.

That type is pad work is not more advanced, it used by some boxers that are more advanced (not the same thing).
Just because Floyd uses it, doesn't make it "right".
You seem to be focusing on what YOU think I don't like, ie: pad work and I have said it before, I love pad work, I don't care for THAT TYPE of pad work.

When the holder meets the punch by slapping it he is creating a false "distance" and an incorrect sense of depth in the strikes, he is doing a disservice to a beginner by doing this, and even with a experienced boxer its not the best way to go, but many do this to "save" their shoulder and elbows from the imapct of holding the pads.
As for hitting the trainee with the pads, that is a given, though tapping them is not MY cup of tea, some trainers swear by it, just as other top level ones swear against it.

Even boxing has its controversies in terms of training.

[YungChun]

I'm not sure if I've been clear, but I didn't say that you should replace your ving tsun pak sao with this.

Totally got that.

I'm just offering another way to look at it. It's a situational thing, and fun to play with. If someone has a fast and powerful jab, they're going to be a handful and I'd want to be on the outside of that, come in when I see something, do what I can and get back out again.

I would want to get in asap and finish, which could mean conversion to "clinch" ..

I was just trying to bridge our pak with their catch.

Got that.. I find it happens naturally, if can't maintain contact use economical movements and press with attack--for me anyhow..

[Knifefighter]

Well that's all good,

Like you said in one of your post, that the pad work that I do is more advanced, .

LOL @ advanced. That is not advanced. That is the flashy, showy stuff done at press conferences and for promotional clips. Of course someone with no knowledge of real pad work and who learns all their stuff from clips wouldn't necessarily know that.

If you have 100 students, I guess P.T. Barnum was right. Bwhahahahaha!

[Ali. R]

You get power from hitting the bags not the pads… The focus pads are just what they are for focus and balance not power… Power should be harnessed when working on the focus pads, if not where’s the 100% focus that one should be working on, you should insert true power within the ring and not while hitting the bags or the pads…

Sometimes when one hit the pads or bags it looks like their hitting them hard especially from the sound. Hitting them hard is for show…. Focus pads should be there to structure the fighters intentions technically before going the into ring (game plan)…

The name of the game with the pads is accuracy, landing more clean punches… power comes from the heavy bag, you can hit it hard sometimes, but it’s not recommended by most, because you could hurt yourself seriously in the process…

When you use a lot of power while training, that’s all one will be thinking about while in the ring and with lost of focus you will also miss a lot, and that’s not my 2 cents, that’s a hundred dollar bill.

For all the things that you have said above, I hope someone would tell Roger that, so his people can stop knocking others out, especially this lady champion (4 time women champion) from my boxing community in Detroit…

Just check out her accuracy…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5Fy3KyetD4

Don’t think she lost any power while fighting in this fight… and look how close she is, she could go long range I’m sure if she wanted to…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exdSgpZHI00


I'm sorry maybe I was wrong...

I don't think its a good idea to use "advanced" pad work like Floyd does for show, when training someone in the basics.
But, to each their own...

I’m pretty sure her pad work was not for show and Mayweather’s also…


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbh1yCx7rfE

If you throw a lot of punches on the pads you will throw a lot in the ring…


Take care,



Ali Rahim.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You get power from hitting the bags not the pads… The focus pads are just what they are for focus and balance not power… Power should be harnessed when working on the focus pads, if not where’s the 100% focus that one should be working on, you should insert true power within the ring and not while hitting the bags or the pads…

Sometimes when one hit the pads or bags it looks like their hitting them hard especially from the sound. Hitting them hard is for show…. Focus pads should be there to structure the fighter intention technically before going the into ring (game plan)…

The name of the game with the pads is accuracy, landing more clean punches… power comes for the heavy bag, you can hit it hard sometimes, but it’s not recommended by most, because you could hurt yourself seriously in the process…

When you use a lot of power while training, that’s all one will be thinking about while in the ring and with lost of focus you will also miss a lot, and that’s not my 2 cents, that’s a hundred dollar bill.

For all the things that you have said above, I hope someone would tell Roger that, so his people can stop knocking others out, especially this lady champion (4 time women champion) from my boxing community in Detroit…

Just check out her accuracy…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5Fy3KyetD4

Don’t think she lost any power while fighting in this fight… and look how close she is, she could go long range I’m sure if she wanted to…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exdSgpZHI00


I'm sorry maybe I was wrong...



I’m pretty sure her pad work was not for show and Mayweather’s also…


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbh1yCx7rfE

If you throw a lot of punches on the pads you will throw a lot in the ring…


Take care,



Ali Rahim.

You fight how you train, if you are working the pads you have to work them like you are gonna fight, that means putting something behind them like Tyson was doing in the clips, not showboating like Floyd.
You say they are for foucs and balance, correct, amongst other things, catch is, th eonly focus and balance you get by working them like you are doing is NOT applicable to when you are actually hitting hard with speed and weight behind the strikes.
As for the defence and evasion you are working, it won't transfer over because the holder of the pads is NOT striking like a boxing opponent would strike.

You say the name of the game is accuracy, well, what accuracy is your boxer working on when YOU bring the pads to HIM ?

As for the clips you just posted, you need to take a better look at what she does in the ring compared to the pads.

[YungChun]

You fight how you train, if you are working the pads you have to work them like you are gonna fight...

Exactly how this was drilled..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgMVOTZ2bpk
Night and day...

What accuracy is your boxer working on when YOU bring the pads to HIM ?

Clearly, no need for targeting no eye contact, long repeated slap sequences instead of live feedback, variation/ranging and changing from the feeder..

[Ali. R]

Good posting gentlemen

You guys maybe right, maybe Mayweather Jr. don't have any power, not... Maybe these champion got it all wrong, but they keep winning, and I'll go with the winners... We are talking different styles, Tyson is not a defensive fighter do anyone knows the difference between the two. if you did then you would clearly understand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbh1yCx7rfE


Take care,

By the way Mayweather is the most accurate boxer in the game, And that’s because of his uncle pushing him of the pads, maybe you guys are right this fighting style is useless, not...
He never lost and always out landed his opponents, now that's focus...



Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

To the Moderator, thank for cleaning it up...


Ali Rahim.