Why is there not a single WC fighter, anywhere!!!!!!!!!

[YouKnowWho]

You might be able to develop a low single that will work against non-grapplers in 2 hours. It takes most people a LOT longer to learn a decent double leg.

You might as well say a grappler could learn to fight effectively with Wing Chun in a couple of lessons.

It's easier to learn a single skill. It's much harder to learn a complete system. It depends on what "major" that you have.

[Frost]

The UFC was originally started by Art Davie, an advertising executive, and Rorion Gracie, a noted master of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. The goal was to stage a tournament featuring fighters of all disciplines in order to determine who was truly the best. Oh look there's Royce lets ask him if hes interested....

As for strikers staying on feet , I said options for UFC [ BJJ ] not prime directive.

As for the 'list' , you need to drink less coffee people know what I mean when I say 20 minutes in a guard.

I know who started it, that doesnt matter please list how they fixed it to make it easier for BJJ guys to win, the padded mats, the big cage the vurtually unlimited striking format...please do tell how it was set up to show BJJs superiority

STaying on the feet doesnt change your stirking plateform so much you cant display wing chun anymore does it?

Yep people know what you mean you were infereing it was a snooze fest and not applicable to real self defence right? i just wanted to point out that you were wrong thats all

[k gledhill]

I know who started it, that doesnt matter please list how they fixed it to make it easier for BJJ guys to win, the padded mats, the big cage the vurtually unlimited striking format...please do tell how it was set up to show BJJs superiority

STaying on the feet doesnt change your stirking plateform so much you cant display wing chun anymore does it?

Yep people know what you mean you were infereing it was a snooze fest and not applicable to real self defence right? i just wanted to point out that you were wrong thats all

It was set up [ufc] to show that with the ground / submission allowed, a lot of striking [ the boxer with one glove] and other un-mma would find that when they got taken down they would have a hard time with no ground game.
You can try to argue snooze fest, but even bjj guys will be the first to say they wont use it in real fights going into guards.

we can agree to disagree...

[Frost]

It was set up [ufc] to show that with the ground / submission allowed, a lot of striking [ the boxer with one glove] and other un-mma would find that when they got taken down they would have a hard time with no ground game.
You can try to argue snooze fest, but even bjj guys will be the first to say they wont use it in real fights going into guards.

we can agree to disagree...

it was set up to see which style worked best in a virtually no rules enviroment...not there fault the grapplers won everything in the early days


at least three of gracies subs were not from the guard, all his fights ended very quickly and he managed to look like his style in action

in real fights bjj guys would do what royce did takedown to mount and ground and pound, and it they somehow end up on their back they can still win

so again the question is where are the wing chun guys using wing chun as their main stand up art and looking like wing chun (not talking about phil or alan orrs guys here but guys from lineages that YOU see as wing chun)

[Dragonzbane76]

It was set up [ufc] to show that with the ground / submission allowed, a lot of striking [ the boxer with one glove] and other un-mma would find that when they got taken down they would have a hard time with no ground game.

how can it be "set up" when the format starts at a stand up????? Striker has there chance, sorry they suck at defense against take downs.

[jesper]

the cracies had the advantage in the first few matches because none of their opponents new how to fight grablers. not cracies fault people came unprepared

[k gledhill]

it was set up to see which style worked best in a virtually no rules enviroment...not there fault the grapplers won everything in the early days


at least three of gracies subs were not from the guard, all his fights ended very quickly and he managed to look like his style in action

in real fights bjj guys would do what royce did takedown to mount and ground and pound, and it they somehow end up on their back they can still win

so again the question is where are the wing chun guys using wing chun as their main stand up art and looking like wing chun (not talking about phil or alan orrs guys here but guys from lineages that YOU see as wing chun)

You sound naive, "it was set up to see which style worked best...." YEAH braniac ! by a guy who knew BJJ would give everyone primarily doing stand up a hard time in a environment that suited its ability to go beyond a clinch ....duh! And of course it looked like his style because......set up for bjj

VT has its place Frost, horses for courses. Sadly though many guys are being shown to have inferior methods at a most basic level. I have my answers to that. The ring has shown that to many. Answer ? regroup and huddle I think guys will see what required of them to fight with impact, distance, timing...not waddling hand chasing that is simply a game of air tag. When I say I see VT in the ring often it is mechanics, concepts of attacking entry mobility. Mobility being a key if not primary idea that many VT have lost to a back and forth in a straight line fiasco. Basic boxing , MT already have mobility I teach in my system but with VT ideas. I cant say this for others. And as I mentioned before I dont teach MMA so you have to cross examine other guys you sound like lawyers I have had to handle in court for fights...

[k gledhill]

the cracies had the advantage in the first few matches because none of their opponents new how to fight grablers. not cracies fault people came unprepared

exactly...point of the early fights...random to ground. Who knew ? Gracies did

[k gledhill]

how can it be "set up" when the format starts at a stand up????? Striker has there chance, sorry they suck at defense against take downs.

because it can end in ? no prizes , take your time......

how often do you see a clinch in stand up, boxing, MT,VT, go to submission wrestling before ufc ?

[JamesC]

because it can end in ? no prizes , take your time......

how often do you see a clinch in stand up, boxing, MT,VT, go to submission wrestling before ufc ?

So what you're saying is that it is unfair that submission grappling is allowed?

[k gledhill]

So what you're saying is that it is unfair that submission grappling is allowed?

NO !! its that guys didnt have black belt standard BJJ [years of experience] when they walked into the cage. They had strong ability but who knew BJJ then ?
Again a 'marketing' $ spinning idea...whats so hard to see? Now its multi million$ closest thing to gladiators, but give it time ! tigers will pop out of floors soon.

[JamesC]

NO !! its that guys didnt have black belt standard BJJ [years of experience] when they walked into the cage. They had strong ability but who knew BJJ then ?
Again a 'marketing' $ spinning idea...whats so hard to see? Now its multi million$ closest thing to gladiators, but give it time ! tigers will pop out of floors soon.

I don't really see what the problem is. The competition is still a closer analog to actual combat than any other combat sports before it. It is a culmination of all the other combat sports.

Sure, it is still a sport, but it is a sport that is closer to real combat than any that came before it.

[k gledhill]

I don't really see what the problem is. The competition is still a closer analog to actual combat than any other combat sports before it. It is a culmination of all the other combat sports.

Sure, it is still a sport, but it is a sport that is closer to real combat than any that came before it.

Your idea of reality? Add alchohol and multiple assailants. Then go into a guard...
Ill watch and visit in hspital

[JamesC]

Your idea of reality? Add alchohol and multiple assailants. Then go into a guard...
Ill watch and visit in hspital

My idea of reality comes from my profession, which is law enforcement.

How about yours?

[JamesC]

Your idea of reality? Add alchohol and multiple assailants. Then go into a guard...
Ill watch and visit in hspital

This is an idiotic statement. So just because there is the possibility of multiple assailants and alcohol, you shouldn't know how to defend yourself on the ground?