Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

And on a side note, it is my opinion that any school or teacher of SD (or even STao) that down plays the background of Master Sin and all is bad, very bad...but that is for another post.

I don't think it is downplaying Master Sin's background to describe SD as "a massive collection of styles which descended from the Shaolin Temple system in China, passed down from master to student and from generation to generation" and to identify Master Sin as the grandmaster of Shaolin-Do.

[Baqualin]

The pace to 500 is picking up
BQ

[sean_stonehart]

The pace to 500 is picking up
BQ

I'm showing 459 on my screen layout!!

[Baqualin]

Ladies and Gentlemen....please give a big hand to Golden Shower....SD's chief Kool-Aid taste-tester. Goldie's taken some time off from his high-level duties to provide all you pee-ons (no pun intended) with his latest words of wisdom.

So, how's that private instruction going? What's the system called?....Rusty Trombone?

BQ

[Golden Tiger]

Ladies and Gentlemen....please give a big hand to Golden Shower....SD's chief Kool-Aid taste-tester. Goldie's taken some time off from his high-level duties to provide all you pee-ons (no pun intended) with his latest words of wisdom.

So, how's that private instruction going? What's the system called?....Rusty Trombone?

Thanks for taking the time to comment on my post. I am sorry if I have stuck a nerve chiballs.

Downplaying. How do you mean? I don't think any has suggested that openly. I don't know or remember... it was a late night teaching/training & it's early now.

Sorry, I might have taken an earlier post the wrong way. Sometimes, no matter how hard one tries, its difficult to respond with out personal biased opinions.

Truth isn't subjective.

Actually, truth can be. Fact is objective. Theres a whole philsophical discipline surround it. See Plato.

I don't think it is downplaying Master Sin's background to describe SD as "a massive collection of styles which descended from the Shaolin Temple system in China, passed down from master to student and from generation to generation" and to identify Master Sin as the grandmaster of Shaolin-Do.

see above

[sean_stonehart]

Sorry, I might have taken an earlier post the wrong way. Sometimes, no matter how hard one tries, its difficult to respond with out personal biased opinions.

Oh it's cool... I just didn't & don't recall saying that or implying it & wanted to make sure if it was or wasn't me.

Actually, truth can be. Fact is objective. Theres a whole philsophical discipline surround it. See Plato.

Eh... I'm not too much on the Greeks.

see above

Yeah but he's special. He's a lawyer...

[Yao Sing]

By anybody in this context refers to Sin The or the immediate subordinates that maintain the organization in his name, flow of information in his name or for his benefit.

How's that?

I think what you're wanting is more of a denouncement of the claims and not just a non-propagation of them.

IOW, not speaking out against them is in fact supporting the claims. You would think that an honest person would want to set that all straight, especially if you control the organization.

He// no body knows the truth. It is subjective. and as far as CBOF get a life man if you cant do HG well dont get pi//y at us. KC

So, you're saying you have not received any information proving the claims are true? You are taking it on faith?

What happened with the talk you had with Sin The when you said you would ask him and post the answers? You came back totally convinced but you can't tell us why? I think you chickened out.

What talk did yo hear over the weekend that reinforced your belief that SD is the true Shaolin?

[Yao Sing]

It's a personal thing man , and I did ask the questions but there was so much depth to the answers I couldnt recall it all.

Recall some of it, just a piece of it. Do you remember any of it? I call BS, you didn't ask any of hte tough questions. That's why you can't answer. You chickened out, admit it.

I was there and have to say the history GMThe gave was amazing and does reinforce the SD position previously noted. LTK

And I suppose you can't remember any of it either. Mass hypnosis maybe?

[mkriii]

So GM Sin The' claims he is the grandmaster? Well it's kind of funny how he can go from an 8th degree BB to a 10th degree BB in a matter of a few months. He leaves the country and comes back 2 degrees higher. I studied under Grandmaster Sin back in the early 80's and came to my senses and saught out some real martial art training. I've hear numerous stories of how he one some tournament and decided after that that he was good enough to be a 10th degree BB some he self promoted himself.

[sean_stonehart]

That's nothing new & not being worried about.

TKD peeps were (are) famous for getting on a plane in one time zone & coming out 3 or 4 more dans higher by the time they get to the new timezone.

[Judge Pen]

Originally Posted by JP
I don't think it is downplaying Master Sin's background to describe SD as "a massive collection of styles which descended from the Shaolin Temple system in China, passed down from master to student and from generation to generation" and to identify Master Sin as the grandmaster of Shaolin-Do.

see above

That "quote" was pulled from GMT's website. On the same site he sometimes refers to himslef as the grandmaster of shaolin and, as often, he refers to himself as the grandmaster of shaolin-do.

As I think that what is or isn't shaolin depends on when the lineage diverged from the temple, it would be impossible to be the grandmaster of all shaolin since that, to me, implies a component of "all time". GMT is not the grandmaster of what is being taught at the temples now, but that is still "shaolin". He is the master of the material that left the temple and has taught to him by GGM Ie. That's an accomplishment and not intended to take anything away or be disrespectful in any way.

[Judge Pen]

Recall some of it, just a piece of it. Do you remember any of it? I call BS, you didn't ask any of hte tough questions. That's why you can't answer. You chickened out, admit it.



And I suppose you can't remember any of it either. Mass hypnosis maybe?

I wasn't privy to the conversation, but I recall KC telling me the day after the conversation, about what was discussed and his answers. I don't know that it occurred, but I believe KC in saying that it did.

If KC wants to share the Q & A, then that's his perogative not mine. I will say that the answers would satisfy anyone that beleives that GMT is truthful and credible. The answers probably would not satisfy any body who does not beleive GM The has any credibility. So, ultimately, it proves nothing except if you wanted it to in the first place. Isn't that how most of us are. Although we try to remain objective, if we are invested in an idea or a principal most of us emphasize the facts that seem to support our beliefs and minimize the ones that do not (whether we are conscious of it or not).

[sean_stonehart]

As I think that what is or isn't shaolin depends on when the lineage diverged from the temple, it would be impossible to be the grandmaster of all shaolin since that, to me, implies a component of "all time". GMT is not the grandmaster of what is being taught at the temples now, but that is still "shaolin". He is the master of the material that left the temple and has taught to him by GGM Ie. That's an accomplishment and not intended to take anything away or be disrespectful in any way.

The problem with that is there's material that was never in any temple to have left & is being represented as such incorrectly. On top of that, there are body mechanic principles intrinsic & required for those systems that are missing as well.

[Judge Pen]

So GM Sin The' claims he is the grandmaster? Well it's kind of funny how he can go from an 8th degree BB to a 10th degree BB in a matter of a few months. He leaves the country and comes back 2 degrees higher. I studied under Grandmaster Sin back in the early 80's and came to my senses and saught out some real martial art training. I've hear numerous stories of how he one some tournament and decided after that that he was good enough to be a 10th degree BB some he self promoted himself.

I've heard that story too except GM The was a 5th at the time (see the certificate translation earlier). After attending a few tournaments and seeing the skill of those who called themselves 6, 7, 8 9 or 10 degree black belts he reported this to his teacher who then promoted Master Sin to 10th. There is a letter floating around that is rumored to document this. I've seen a transcription of it, but I have no idea if its even remotely accurate or authentic. He was reposrtedly promoted to GM and 10th degree black in 1968 by Ie Chang Ming.

I'm curious to hear about your training. Who did you train with after leaving GM The?

[Judge Pen]

The problem with that is there's material that was never in any temple to have left & is being represented as such incorrectly. On top of that, there are body mechanic principles intrinsic & required for those systems that are missing as well.

I know--SD identifies temples and material that is coming from temples that most dispute. I understand your objections.

As far as body mechanics etc., no doubt the material has evolved into its own animal. The problem is compounded by the inter-mingling of different material and a tendancy of some teachers and schools to rush through material without ever spending time teaching anything other than form.