Wing chun master class demo

[Vajramusti]

Because most WC guys here don't want to discuss "general TCMA subjects" in non-WC threads.

It's very unlikely that you will have to fight another WC guy in street. Most likely you will fight people from other styles. the more that you can understand their way of thinking, the more advantage that you will have when you need to fight them.

I had trained all 3 WC forms and wooden dummy drills (no butterfly knife and 6 and 1/2 point staff) from 3 of Ip Men's students back in 1973. I have nothing to hide for my TCMA cross training history.

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You Know Who:
We have gone over this before. No direct Ip man student taught in Austin to the best of my knowledge, You worked out with some students way down the line and assume that you know wing chun. With your grounding in Chinese wrestling- you assume that you can generalize about all styles.You are branching out from your game which is ok- but pontificating about another game
can result in errors.

Wing chun is not about defending only against other wing chun people. Knowing your game is important. If one learns the wing chun game well- you can learn to deal with other styles.

You tend to over generalize about all of TCMA. The result is making errors about what styles really do in their details. In a thread you started in the general forum- which went fairly dry- you generalized about TCMA witha glue v hook theme. For WC you used the fook and the tan- quite
inaccurately.

[JPinAZ]

Well said JP.
Seems you have some parties on here that want to link WC to TCMA to bolster their (supposed) knowledge and overall intellectual standing, but the minute someone comes in from a true TCMA angle they cry "you dont do WC!!!"

Hypocrisy with a capitol H

Having said that, Joy doesn't seem to push the TCMA barrow too much but does seem put of by Johns comments. But hey, its a free forum

Haha, good point! Some are always talking snake this, crane that, tai chi mumbo jumbo something else on almost every post whenever they talk WC!

Not to beat a dead horse (but ahh, what the heck!), to me it seems John is sharing his view on a WCK clip based on understanding of basic principles, physics, geometry, leverage and human anatomy (not to mention simple logic). IMO, this is what WCK is all about, not if a certain technique is WC or not WC. He sounds more like a what WCK guy should sound like at times more-so than some of the self-proclaimed WCK experts around here! I think that scares or confuses them because some are stuck in a technique level of thinking when he is going beyond just the technique he sees.

[Hendrik]

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You Know Who:
We have gone over this before. No direct Ip man student taught in Austin to the best of my knowledge, You worked out with some students way down the line and assume that you know wing chun. With your grounding in Chinese wrestling- you assume that you can generalize about all styles.You are branching out from your game which is ok- but pontificating about another game
can result in errors.

Wing chun is not about defending only against other wing chun people. Knowing your game is important. If one learns the wing chun game well- you can learn to deal with other styles.

You tend to over generalize about all of TCMA. The result is making errors about what styles really do in their details. In a thread you started in the general forum- which went fairly dry- you generalized about TCMA witha glue v hook theme. For WC you used the fook and the tan- quite
inaccurately.

I agree with Joy on John tcma view. John is a great sc player it is sad when he decides to run too thin.

[Wayfaring]

Btw, machine gun is not bazooka . And pistol is not crossbow. A machine gun guy, a cross bow guy....those are all different guys.

I totally agree. My machine gun guy is definitely in Gears of War. And my crossbow guy is Assassin's Creed all the way.

[desertwingchun2]

I totally agree. My machine gun guy is definitely in Gears of War. And my crossbow guy is Assassin's Creed all the way.

Boomshot - GOW
UMP - COD3

[desertwingchun2]

not true, I care for both myself and others.

There is no self only thus, rookie HAHAHAHAHA

Lean back and laugh into the wind, it feels better that way.

[guy b.]

John is practicing the same way with Xing yi, I tell him one needs to develop the San ti shi and six harmony Jin. Otherwise those sets doesn't mean much. But he seems to not be able to understand. How can one claim to be Xing yi expert of high generation wihtout knowing that?

John seems to think his shuai jiau basic cover and applied to all tcma. That is what I see. And he will not admit he has misunderstanding.

Why does he need to develop san ti shi and 6 harmony jin (in physical terms that everyone can understand the meaning of)?

[YouKnowWho]

No direct Ip man student taught in Austin to the best of my knowledge, You worked out with some students way down the line and assume that you know wing chun.

You don't know me and you make such assumption. Those 3 Ip Men students did not have comercial school. There were just UT (University of Texas at Austin) students like me.

When I started my UT Kung Fu Information class back in 1973, Jeffery Law taught WC for the 1st hour and I taught longfist for the 2nd hour. Please check with UT informal class official record if you want to. Jeffery Law gradulated from UT with a PhD degree in the field of "Operation Research". Last time I knew, he was a prefessor in some Texas university. The reason that got me interested in WC was I sparred with his brother ??? Law, His brother's WC skill imprssed me. I could still remember that when I punch at his chest, his Tan Shou redirected my punch. That sparring happened in the Brickenridge Apartment (UT marriage students apartment) under a big tree where I hanged my heavy bag. Jeffery brother also told me that before he came to US, He had sparred with a Karate guy. He used WC reverse downward side kick to tear his opponent's shin bone muscle. May be someone could verify that in Hong Kong back in 1972.

If your teacher is one of Ip Man's students (I assume you didn't learn directly from Ip Man - I could be wrong), you can ask him whether Jeffery Law and his brother ??? Law are Ip Men's students. I can't remember the 3rd person's name. I don't believe back in 1973 (Bruce Lee was still alive), there were any Ip Men students who could be 2 generation down. It would be very difficult to find anybody from Ip Men's students back in 1973.

Liang Ting came to Austin and taught one of my Karate friend RICHARD 'TIGER' GUERRA That was back 1980.

https://sites.google.com/site/manodeguerra/home

Again, I don't claim to be a WC expert but I do understand the WC principles.

[Hendrik]

Why does he need to develop san ti shi and 6 harmony jin (in physical terms that everyone can understand the meaning of)?

becuase that is the particular engine to power xing yi.

[guy b.]

becuase that is the particular engine to power xing yi.

These are not the engine, they only develop the engine. What is the engine?

[Hendrik]

These are not the engine, they only develop the engine. What is the engine?

ok. since you already know it. i leave it to you now.

[wingchunIan]

It's you who always does the "guessing work".

I don't do "guessing work". I put up my "personal clip" to back up my work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73JxUuHS9S0

Just as an observation, and far be it from me to try to teach a grappler how to grapple, but even with my limited judo knowledge if you reach that far across the front of an opponent on one leg whilst they still have two on the ground you can expect to eat mat face first with them on your back. It happens time and time again in Judo matches all over the world at every level.

[YouKnowWho]

Just as an observation, and far be it from me to try to teach a grappler how to grapple, but even with my limited judo knowledge if you reach that far across the front of an opponent on one leg whilst they still have two on the ground you can expect to eat mat face first with them on your back. It happens time and time again in Judo matches all over the world at every level.

This is an excellent observation. This is why the following 3 requirements are important:

- Your run down momentum.
- Your Tinjin (sensitivity) from you and your opponent's body contact.
- Your ability to reverse your throwing direction.

When your body is moving along with your opponent's body, you will need to sense which direction that he intends to resist. If you feel strong resistence against the direction that you are moving to, such that you feel your right arm can't make his body to bend to his right (collapse his structure), you will immediately reverse your attacking direction. You borrow his resistence force, your under hook arm then quickly slide down below his left knee. You then use your head (or left hand) to push his upper body to throw him backward.

Most of the time, which direction that you will throw your opponent is not up to you, but up to which direction that your opponent is going to resist (or yield). You then borrow your opponent's resistence force and add your force to achieve A + B > A. Just make sure that your reverse direction throw doesn't require too much "hands position change", because you don't have much time.

When you reverse your throwing direction, and you can still feel strong resistence (your opponent can react to your force very fast), you can change back as A -> B -> A. Who is going to win in that sequence depends on who has better skill.

I don't have clip for that. Here is a picture.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/169...ekneeseize.jpg

Also when you move forward, you will have chance to use your righ leg to attack his:

1st side - the outside of his left leg (foot sweep - Kosoto Gari).
2nd side - the inside of his left leg (leg twist - Kawazu gake).
3rd side - the inside of his right leg (inner heel sweep - Kouchi Gari).
4th side - the outside of his right leg (front cut - Osoto Gari).

Before you can reach to his 4th side, you will have 3 options to attack by using differenct throwing technique.

Depending on your Tinjin, you can also move infront of him or behind of him (instead of across of him). Your hand can also change from under hook into waist surround and attack his:

front door - infrontof him (hip throw - Koshi Guruma)
back door - behind him (embrace - Ushiro Goshi)

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1176781]You don't know me and you make such assumption. Those 3 Ip Men students did not have comercial school. There were just UT (University of Texas at Austin) students like me.


((Of course I don't know you.And you don't know me.Just a discussion list discussion. I went by what you said. Shows that your wing chun back ground
is too minimal to be making grand comparisons of wing chun , in my opinion of course.
There was no major student if Ip Man himself that I know of named Law. There was a Law who studied some with wsl and came to the US as a student. Perhaps he is the one you say was a a student at UT and taught some wc and long fist in a class. Fine for personal experience but imo not enough to make analysis of fook and tan - for your own hook and glue analogy. I enjoy your shuai chao related comments,))



Liang Ting came to Austin and taught one of my Karate friend RICHARD 'TIGER' GUERRA That was back 1980.

((There is a history there-irrelevant for the thread))

[wingchunIan]

This is an excellent observation. This is why the following 3 requirements are important:

- Your run down momentum.
- Your Tinjin (sensitivity) from you and your opponent's body contact.
- Your ability to reverse your throwing direction.

When your body is moving along with your opponent's body, you will need to sense which direction that he intends to resist. If you feel strong resistence against the direction that you are moving to, such that you feel your right arm can't make his body to bend to his right (collapse his structure), you will immediately reverse your attacking direction. You borrow his resistence force, your under hook arm then quickly slide down below his left knee. You then use your head (or left hand) to push his upper body to throw him backward.

Most of the time, which direction that you will throw your opponent is not up to you, but up to which direction that your opponent is going to resist (or yield). You then borrow your opponent's resistence force and add your force to achieve A + B > A. Just make sure that your reverse direction throw doesn't require too much "hands position change", because you don't have much time.

When you reverse your throwing direction, and you can still feel strong resistence (your opponent can react to your force very fast), you can change back as A -> B -> A. Who is going to win in that sequence depends on who has better skill.

I don't have clip for that. Here is a picture.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/169...ekneeseize.jpg

Also when you move forward, you will have chance to use your righ leg to attack his:

1st side - the outside of his left leg (foot sweep - Kosoto Gari).
2nd side - the inside of his left leg (leg twist - Kawazu gake).
3rd side - the inside of his right leg (inner heel sweep - Kouchi Gari).
4th side - the outside of his right leg (front cut - Osoto Gari).

Before you can reach to his 4th side, you will have 3 options to attack by using differenct throwing technique.

Depending on your Tinjin, you can also move infront of him or behind of him (instead of across of him). Your hand can also change from under hook into waist surround and attack his:

front door - infrontof him (hip throw - Koshi Guruma)
back door - behind him (embrace - Ushiro Goshi)

Maybe, it just looks to me like trying to force fit a technique that you're out of range to pull off, but then again it's equally possible that I'm wrong as grappling isn't my area of expertise.