Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff

[bawang]

Seriously?

America treats its 'in group' well. It does as it pleases with the rest of the world, but its own citizens enjoy one of the best lifestyles available.

black people and Mexicans

Countries like Russia may claim America is evil because it preys on other nations, but to prey on others is not as great an evil as to prey on ones own. Many other nations are guilty of this.

do u even empire

[RenDaHai]

black people and Mexicans

.....I suppose are yet to be considered full fledged 'in group' by Americans, of course that is a flaw. But they are making progress...

There seems to be an influx of immigrants to America, if life was better at home they would not go.

do u even empire

I am not sure what you mean?

[bawang]

.....I suppose are yet to be considered full fledged 'in group' by Americans, of course that is a flaw. But they are making progress...

trayvon martin

I am not sure what you mean?

of course if you prey on others you don't have to prey on your own. that's empire.

[RenDaHai]

trayvon martin

I'm not really up to date on this. Every article I see is so hugely biased one way or the other that it is not worth reading. But I don't have access to so much, much of the internet is obscured.

of course if you prey on others you don't have to prey on your own. that's empire.

Man is born a beast, he is raised above the animals by culture. Culture is generated by Empires. Is it better that we stay in Eden, ignorant of right and wrong, or should we take the apple and become like the gods, having knowledge of good an evil?

Everything has its time. The Empires of the past were necessary for today, maybe we can move past violence and build empires of a different nature.

We are born of culture, we know nothing else so it is very hard to argue against it, and if we argue for it then we should argue to take it further.

[bawang]

Everything has its time. The Empires of the past were necessary for today, maybe we can move past violence and build empires of a different nature.

what you said is a good example of the problem with empire. as an empire gets more powerful, its people turn soft while its enemies turn ever harder from constant war. that's why you see so many sudden reversals and shifts in power.

[RenDaHai]

what you said is a good example of the problem with empire. as an empire gets more powerful, its people turn soft while its enemies turn ever harder from constant war. that's why you see so many sudden reversals and shifts in power.

Ah yes, the spiral of decadence.....and we are on the edge of it now. But technology has become so powerful it may change the game forever. Otherwise we will be enslaved by barbarians, and we will have forged the fetters for ourselves.

[RenDaHai]

who is the barbarian?

In relative terms, those who would enslave us, those who are not our group. In absolute terms that is harder to decide. But there are absolutes, and virtues of one culture against another can be measured.

[Matthew]

So is compassion [only a mental creation].

Yes, but a skillful one. More skillful IMO than semi-arbitrary terminologies intended to cause division

If people didn't eat or otherwise utilize cattle, pigs, and fowl they wouldn't exist today.

This is true of many areas, but may not be of all.

When I was young, sexual desire bled from my eyes. I was motivated by selfish desires of sex, great tasting foods, pleasurable sensations, etc.

These things brought me to where I am today.. and now I'm free to renounce them. I no longer need to "eat animals" merely because it played a role in my development to this state.

Likewise for sexual desire. There are too many people wasting time posting on here about why they want to eat meat.. many seem to have proactive defense mechanisms that were activated when 1 thread about Buddhists who don't eat meat was created.

In any case, critical discussion occurred. Data was examined, opinions were voiced, and people are growing.

It's not easy to stay on topic in a forum, and likewise it is our nature to voice our own personal interests.

[Matthew]

Indeed, two types of evil exist, to commit evil and to allow it to happen. And indeed this conversation must be had.

And I remember reading one that you had been discussing (in this thread or another)? Had some really engaging discussion there to me.

I agree in a way. Compassion has no opposite, it has no extreme, it is wuji, no yin and yang, It is only truth. It has no change, So it is the ultimate ideal.

Well, I'm a relative beginner in cultivation.. but it is debatable among some schools as to whether or not compassionate contemplation (metta I believe, but only from english translations) can bring one to enlightenment or is a conventional truth only rather than an ultimate ideal.. with equanimity being a greater emphasis "later in the path" Not there myself, so not too worried about it.

IMO anything that is true is something that benefits other beings (as opposed to only benefiting my self). Even if someone had realized equanimity, I'm betting they would teach compassion as a skillful means to people entering the stream.

But things must have their time. There are those who would kill and commit atrocities to protect animals...

Right. in casual conversation I refer to humans as animals, but the irony is readily apparent. "Forsaking the root to pursue the branch tips"

Some Buddhist posters online point out the modern chinese character for meat is a person trapping another person in a box or house... and that in continuous rebirth you will be the one trapping only yourself.

Teaching compassion for animals may not teach compassion for all things, it may skew a mans perception of the order of things.

Animals do not have the same potential as their masters and so they cannot be enslaved. It is not the correct word.

It isn't some potential that makes any being worth more than another.. so I disagree. It is only in the application of that potential.

IMO, your definition of enslavement is splitting hairs.. and merely dresses up the reality that beings are being killed prematurely and against their will because people are spreading false pretenses that it's necessary.

I agree to nurture the root of compassion, but strong words like murder and enslavement do not do this, they arouse anger.

Sometimes, Political Correctness has many benefits, but I think in cases like this, it depends who we're talking to.

in my personal life, I've seen more serious reflection in discussions with people when I say more outright "I don't eat animals" rather than "I don't eat meat."

Putting it that way may be less politically correct, but challenges people to examine the reality. Children talk like this, because they are void of such societal conditioning.. in a way they are better at cutting through the fog.

Some of the most politically correct terminologies make it harder to see other peoples opinions

[wenshu]

LOL @ trustafarian kung fu tourists philosophizing about absolute morality and cultural relativism

[Lucas]

I enjoy eating animals. I may not have to but I like it, and I can , so I'll keep doing so.

its also a matter of perspective. i dont have guilt for eating an animal like most all vegitarians/vegans do.

i feel the same when i eat a potato as i do when i eat a dog.

why does a dogs life matter more than a potatoes?

[Jimbo]

why does a dogs life matter more than a potatoes?

Interesting point. All forms of life have consciousness. We may view a plant's consciousness as 'inferior' to that of an animal or a person, but that in itself is a type of prejudice. Silly as it may sound.

Everything you eat comes at the expense of other living things, even if you are a vegetarian/vegan. At least animals have the *potential* to get away or fight back. Poor vegetables and fruits don't even have that option.

[Kellen Bassette]

All forms of life have consciousness. We may view a plant's consciousness as 'inferior' to that of an animal or a person, but that in itself is a type of prejudice.

"It's ok to eat fish, because they don't have any feelings." ~Kurt Cobain

[Kellen Bassette]

Sometimes, Political Correctness has many benefits, but I think in cases like this, it depends who we're talking to.

Political correctness has no benefit other than being used as a ploy to control simple minded people. It weakens the individual and society as a whole.

[Kellen Bassette]

what you said is a good example of the problem with empire. as an empire gets more powerful, its people turn soft while its enemies turn ever harder from constant war. that's why you see so many sudden reversals and shifts in power.

Empires fail because as they take more territory, they are forced to occupy more ground. More soldiers and resources must constantly be employed. The native resistance, however, can be maintained indefinitely, for generations, for as long as the occupiers are seen as outside oppressors.
The citizens of the occupying country will eventually grow tired of fighting for a land they have no attachment to, the people fighting for their homeland have nowhere else to go.
When an empire grows to big it becomes spread to thin. This is why the U.S. has been experimenting with a new type of modern imperialism. We turned away from the classical imperialism of Germany, Britain and France and began using economic imperialism and fighting indirect wars.
I think the end result will still be collapse.