And I've never encountered two people that were so dogmatic in their beliefs that they won't even examine simple logic. You two have truly "drunk the koolaide"!!!Originally Posted by guy b.
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And I've never encountered two people that were so dogmatic in their beliefs that they won't even examine simple logic. You two have truly "drunk the koolaide"!!!
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Ok, tell me what principles second form teaches , or third , choose one and explain with accent on biomchanics . It doesn't have to be detailed explaination , I am really curious .
Last edited by zuti car; 04-07-2017 at 05:41 PM.
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Here GM and his student are doing SLT form , notice how his lower and upper body are disconnected , no body structure , his elbows are outside the body line for all hand movements , no support of the body at all and he generates force in first section by his arm and shoulder( no power generation ) , and later he does the same and for souple of punches he uses hip rotation .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40V0KwykDHE
Here is are second and third forms, again , no conncetion between upper and lower body , stepping on the heels , all the beginner's mistakes , it is like he was doing everything wrong on purpose. Although many wing chun styles do not agree on anything , they all have some common points , like body structure which can vary but the purpose is the same , power generation, again it can vary but it requires good structure , keeping elbows "inside' , stepping on the balls of the feet , these are basic, and we don't see that in TWC .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7zpsvLlrkg
Here is TWC street fighting along with "principles "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQC...yJ5FVdGUvxbQRl
Last edited by zuti car; 04-07-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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What I described is what is meant by the word "application" in the martial arts world. Are you a complete newb or something?
Look up any martial art application video on Youtube and you will find demonstrations of 1:1 technique application, most often being uses of actions from forms. That's what everyone means by application in martial arts, except for you.
You will not find free fighting videos being called "applications". To "apply" one's skills is just called fighting.
If your approach to fighting is application-based, it means you use your technique applications in fighting.
If your approach to fighting is non-application based, it means your conceptual approach doesn't make use of such technique applications pulled directly from forms.
That this needs explaining to you is quite sad. You are either still a complete newb, or you are dishonestly playing with words to make it seem like we share the same method, when really you have no clue what is being explained to you.
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Good summary. And still he plays for a crowd that isn't even there. You are right, sad is the word for it.
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You seem to be under the illusion that I am getting something from answering you trolling. I am not. I get everything I need with WSL VT. I don't have the idea that it is somehow lacking lurking in my subconscious as you so obviously do in terms of the training you have done. And that is not surprising, seeing what you do and listening to how you think about the system.And I've never encountered two people that were so dogmatic in their beliefs that they won't even examine simple logic. You two have truly "drunk the koolaide"!!!
If you want to learn something then you need to get over yourself first, because I don't have a lot of time to waste with pointless chatter. If not, and you just like to play for the crowd, then suggest you go back to martial talk- there is nobody here to watch your performance and it is wearing thin rapidly for me. Keep on trolling and evenyually you will just get silence as an answer.
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He came back here only because they banned him there for getting personal and using profanity.
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Ok. Just quickly.....pivoting Bong Sau teaches the biomechanics of stepping with the pivot rather than just pivoting in place as most Wing Chun systems do. Doing it with the Bong Sau emphasizes the biomechanic of using the up to extend power to the arm as the rear foot engages the ground. Doing multiple Bong Saus is teaching the student that the Bong is a vulnerable position and must be changed quickly into something else...which is sometimes another Bong! Pivoting from Bong to Lop Sau is similar but now the biomechanic is how to extend power to the arm when the lead foot engages the ground. And again....Bong is vulnerable so you are learning to convert it immediately into something else, in this case a Lop on a different line.
The pivoting Bong Saus lead into the Jeep Sau section. But prior to the Jeep Saus you come out of the Bong with a circular inward Fook Sau. Most people are familiar with the Bong hand swinging inward to convert to a punch. But here the Bong hand swings outward. This teaches how to go around an obstacle, and is something very important to be applied when using the Butterfly knives. It uses the priniciple of circular motion but shows the student that this principle can be used in several different ways....different biomechanic.
The end of the Jeep Sau section where you go to a T stance with a Lop Sau. The priniciple here is to cover center when changing lines for better protection. The arm sweeps up and across the center before doing the Lop.
At several points in the form you step out on a 45 degree line rather than just using linear footwork on one line. One of the big principles in TWC is to take an angle and not face an opponent "head on" if you don't have to. You want to align your center at the opponent while preventing him from aligning his center at you! This is emphasized through-out the form with stepping out on the 45 degree line. It is also the priniciple behind the T steps that show up in the form in a couple of places.
The first section with Fak Sau out to the side followed immediately with a Jum Sau and strike teaches the principle of recovering center from an extended or awkward position, and then immediately counterattacking before the opponent can respond well. This is also the movement that emphasizes the body dynamic of "sink and rise" to help generate power because no step or pivot is used for this motion in the form.
The closing section with the Gum Saus is done with the pivot step to teach the principles that against low-line attackes you need to think of stepping off of the line of attack as your primary defense. The Gum Sau is really just there as a support or back up.
The finishing punches end with both hand extended because it is teaching more than just chain punching. This is the idea that you won't always "hit and return". You may "hit and stick" to trap and control as the next punch comes out. That's why the second punch stays out and waits for the third punch.
This is just a small bit off the top of my head, and I'm sure the "dynamic duo" will have criticisms and find fault. But I'm really surprised you never learned this Zuti!
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I was temporarily banned for half-jokingly telling you to "fxck off" after you had been acting like your typical dickish self. If I had told you to "sit on it" instead everything would have been fine. Two things get you banned at MT...challenging someone to a fight, and using bad words. Otherwise you can be as much of a ***** as you want....as you have personally demonstrated on multiple occasions.
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Oh man! Should I post videos of Wayne Yung for comparison??? That guy looks like he is about to fall over about half the time!
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Ok. And the examples I gave from WSL's videos also fit your definition. And I understand what you are explaining just fine. I just disagree with how you are using the terms and how you often use your term in a derogatory way when referring to other systems.
Last edited by KPM; 04-08-2017 at 04:41 AM.
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I don't have the idea that it is somehow lacking lurking in my subconscious as you so obviously do in terms of the training you have done. And that is not surprising, seeing what you do and listening to how you think about the system.
---No, it is exactly the opposite. I don't have some subconscious sense of lacking. You two have this subconscious sense of superiority, the snobbish sense that your WSLVT is so much better than everyone else's Wing Chun, that comes across in nearly every discussion. Its part of how both of you post. Its inherent in what you just said above. Maybe you are not even aware of it? That's what rubs me the wrong way.
---And for someone that showed up in MT at least twice and maybe three times after being banned under a faked identity to lie to the forum members and continue to stir up trouble, you really don't have room to lecture anyone else!
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Fighting an imaginary opponent every step of the way!
He's not teaching the VT system in those videos.
Then you disagree with the entire world of martial arts.And I understand what you are explaining just fine. I just disagree with how you are using the terms
I don't.and how you often use your term in a derogatory way when referring to other systems.
Being application-based is not negative, unless your applications are unrealistic like TWC's.
This has been explained to you.
What WSL often showed to visitors was retarded applications people often come up with, and then a way to tweak them so they aren't so utterly impractical. But, and this is a big BUT, that is still not how VT functions and in fact undermines the conceptual basis to the whole method.
If you have time and want to learn VT, you need to drop this very superficial 1:1 sort of thinking altogether. That's what his longterm students did, and they laugh at the idea that these applications must be what VT is all about!
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It's not subconscious. If I didn't think WSLVT were better, I wouldn't waste my time with it, much like I don't waste my time with the entirely useless TWC.
HOWEVER, you, and only you are taking things personally. Your inferiority complex is giving you the false sense that others feel superior to you, when we are engaging in purely technical discussion.
Last edited by LFJ; 04-08-2017 at 05:23 AM.
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What you seem to want is validation from others. The fact that some people refuse to validate when you are talking nonsense is what winds you up. You need to be told you are a very clever boy, no matter what you say, in order to be happy.
If you want approval then speak plainly and make sense. If you say something sensible then I will have no problem agreeing with you, and you will be able to relax and be happy. The main problem with your approach so far is that you are often dishonest, and you troll all of the time. This isn't something I have time for any more, sorry. Of course if you talk rubbish then I will point this out, so you will need to control the ego for the conversation to go anywhere.
If you can't manage to stop drama-queening and lying, and still need to feel validated all of the time, then martial talk is indeed the place for you to return to when your ban expires.
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