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Thread: Kwan Sau

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    I'll give you an opinion. Its you posturing as the WC curriculum expert ,and happy to judge everyones posts on this forum, but why dont you offer a WC related combat reply to a given situation.
    You never do.
    Funny that! Because you never serve us anything other than your own interpretation and 'posturing' as some hard VT man who has trained everything everyone else has but they haven't done anything like you! Never seen a clip even...

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Please tell me that you dont teach people??
    God knows they would need therapy
    FWIW No I have no formal students, but I do exchange with anybody that has an open mind And if you're not willing, after all your years, to accept that by learning the terms correctly greatly improves your understanding, well, then I seriously hope you don't teach people either!
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    My 'go to' Chinese online dictionary has this for 'kwan':

    http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexi...h.php?q=%AE%B9

    : tie up; bind, truss up; bundle

    That is no more enlightening that what has gone before in the thread.
    But it IS. It explains the purpose more so than Kevins negativity.

    Some people simply give you directions like 'turn right' whereas Kev may fill your head with all the reasons not to turn left but forget to tell you to turn right! This is because he is avoiding the more simple questions. Like, tell me what kwan means?

    Answer me this, IF we take a literal look at binding/tieing up, tell me where you would do that (in life)? What occupation?? Then look at Wing Chuns history. You will find it easier to understand WHY we have kwansau and name it that way. THEN tell me how it's applied in combat!

    Giving the old lien siu dai da chestnut is just a cop-out, but very common in the WSL/PB line I guess because that's what PB prefers (?)
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  3. #33
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Funny that! Because you never serve us anything other than your own interpretation and 'posturing' as some hard VT man who has trained everything everyone else has but they haven't done anything like you! Never seen a clip even...

    Dude (nice aint it) i could easily hop on the "PB waterboy killing machine" fanclub to join in ridiculing you but i choose not to. I respect your opinion and will defend your right to express it (FWIW i think G is a tool and K is getting better with time)
    What i cant stand is your one-eyed support for anything chinese and you looking down at the western "approach".
    Youve just supported Jackie (because he's chinese, but is he?) but when i mentioned my rare lineage you slagged me off.
    If my name was Ray Chen would it have been different?

    Your hypocrisy is astounding




    Just had an ex-student contact me after 15 years thanking me for teaching him how to hit hard....... apparently it sticks in his mind and he is a MMA exponent now.

    Care to exchange student stories?

  4. #34
    [QUOTE=GlennR;1111720]

    (FWIW i think G is a tool and K is getting better with time)
    Priceless!!!

    GH

  5. #35
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    [QUOTE=Graham H;1111733]
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post

    Priceless!!!

    GH


    Always thinking of you G

  6. #36
    [QUOTE=GlennR;1111734]
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post



    Always thinking of you G
    I know!

    G

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Answer me this, IF we take a literal look at binding/tieing up, tell me where you would do that (in life)? What occupation?? Then look at Wing Chuns history. You will find it easier to understand WHY we have kwansau and name it that way. THEN tell me how it's applied in combat!
    How long is your piece of string for tying up then?

    One term is not going to tell me how it's applied in combat.
    Last edited by CFT; 07-05-2011 at 05:36 AM.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    But it IS. It explains the purpose more so than Kevins negativity.

    Some people simply give you directions like 'turn right' whereas Kev may fill your head with all the reasons not to turn left but forget to tell you to turn right! This is because he is avoiding the more simple questions. Like, tell me what kwan means?

    Answer me this, IF we take a literal look at binding/tieing up, tell me where you would do that (in life)? What occupation?? Then look at Wing Chuns history. You will find it easier to understand WHY we have kwansau and name it that way. THEN tell me how it's applied in combat!

    Giving the old lien siu dai da chestnut is just a cop-out, but very common in the WSL/PB line I guess because that's what PB prefers (?)

    Stop trying to make me think literal chinese will explain it all. I leaned to read , write and speak cantonese. I am rusty and my teacher moved, so its not a resume' qualification by any means.
    I am not trying to be negative, simply no longer accepting what I am training in, is to be explained to me by guys who dont have a clue beyond chi-sao battles.
    IOW guys look for answers to techniques inside chi-sao, rather than, why we are doing it is for sparring from no chi-sao, ie, reflex reactions at high speeds , not thinking, just bam, intercept me, bam bam, not "lets feel him and then tie him in a kwan knot" , whoops he just took me down as I turned myself to redirect his hands ...darn !

    We dont see bong, we strike, bong n tan are an item in lightning mode , bong disappears as fast as it came, tan stays on the line , firing, bong became a hit ...all in the blink of an eye.
    The ballistic force of bong was developed in dummy drilling on the lower arm...

    There is only one bong ! not a low, high middle, left of center, ooops right abit left a bit, doh !

    Energy in unison, straight line strikes coupled with parry's laterally moving across our centerline. Equals a combination of a 'turning' force = bong/gaun, etc... + a linear force strike =tan/jum.

    Learning to unify energy that both turns and strikes extended levers offered. No levers, free hands hit.

    why would I have both arms extended inside yours while standing still waiting to feel to do a [your idea] kwan ?

  9. #39
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    There must be plenty of video footage of PB on youtube now that includes use of kwan sao? You can just 'talk' us through a few seconds.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Dude (nice aint it) i could easily hop on the "PB waterboy killing machine" fanclub to join in ridiculing you but i choose not to. I respect your opinion and will defend your right to express it (FWIW i think G is a tool and K is getting better with time)
    Sorry? You defend my opinions? Don't make me false promises dude

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    What i cant stand is your one-eyed support for anything chinese and you looking down at the western "approach".
    Youve just supported Jackie (because he's chinese, but is he?) but when i mentioned my rare lineage you slagged me off.
    Sorry, I must have missed something. Your 'rare lineage'? Did you tell me this on another thread?? I will have to re-read because I don't recall any 'slagging off' here either! Just saying it how I see it.

    Jackie, too, has said things I disagree with but it doesn't stop me posting. I have no preference for anyone Chinese either, I can tell you! One of my oaths was never to teach it back to them!! (joke)

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Just had an ex-student contact me after 15 years thanking me for teaching him how to hit hard....... apparently it sticks in his mind and he is a MMA exponent now.

    Care to exchange student stories?
    Not really because, as I've said time and time again, I do not have any formal students. BUT I have taught many hundreds over the years, or 'assisted' my Sifu teach them if that makes you feel better!

    We train how to hit hard too, I think ALL Wing Chun schools should and probably do. And herein lies my thorn with yourself.

    You constantly DO NOT defend my views but say you 'would' because you have not learnt how I have. And neither has anyone else here actually, as we were all taught as individuals (I hope!) But when I talk of language and culture it isn't to show disrespect to anyone who has never learnt such a way. It is just to highlight my way. My preference. That's all.

    If you find yourself having problems with that then all I can do is offer my apology. I don't ever intend to 'look down' on any Wing Chun student. I have a profound respect for the guys I have met and worked with over the years, and maybe you're just hyper sensitive to my rambling
    Last edited by LoneTiger108; 07-05-2011 at 07:49 AM.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Stop trying to make me think literal chinese will explain it all. I leaned to read , write and speak cantonese. I am rusty and my teacher moved, so its not a resume' qualification by any means.
    That's your issue, not mine. Learning to speak cantonese isn't going to help you learn, it helps you 'teach' in the same way our ancestors did. Why not ask your Sifu if you can view any original writings he has of WSL's? Bet they're not in English or German

    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    There is only one bong ! not a low, high middle, left of center, ooops right abit left a bit, doh !
    So correct (in 1980) but so wrong today!

    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    why would I have both arms extended inside yours while standing still waiting to feel to do a [your idea] kwan ?
    Interesting. I can't recall giving you my arms? Simply asking for a translation to base the discussion on of which you have still to deliver an opinion...
    Last edited by LoneTiger108; 07-05-2011 at 07:51 AM.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    How long is your piece of string for tying up then?

    One term is not going to tell me how it's applied in combat.
    Hmmm

    I actually expected more from you sir!

    In fact WTF???! If your own translation DOESN'T tell you what kwan IS doing in combat what is it telling you?

    Simply that you need to be shown

    Phew! That's that for now... any more??
    Last edited by LoneTiger108; 07-05-2011 at 07:52 AM.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Hmmm

    I actually expected more from you sir!

    In fact WTF???! If your own translation DOESN'T tell you what kwan IS doing in combat what is it telling you?

    Simply that you need to be shown
    That suggests to me that the gwai lo is wrong!!!!

    LOL

  14. #44
    [QUOTE=CFT;1111708]In simple words:

    Outside of chi sau, in general, what does kwan sau work against, what should it achieve as an end result and what is the mechanics behind it?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chee- per your Cantonese dictionary-tie up; bind, truss up; bundle- are good enough basic meanings for kwan. But then- meanings need to be elaborated in different discipline specific contexts.In the wing chun that I do- doing the kwan function involves a coordinated into the line and outward rolling motion with respect to the axis. There is a different inside rolling kwan as well.The concept of the kwan when done well is in the opening of the slt, in the chum kiu, and in the dummy. It can be strengthened with the right BJD motions.. As in other aspects of wing chun knowing one's axis and sensing the weakness of the other person helps with effectiveness of motions.As with many other wc things both elbows work in coordinated fashion.
    People usually think of dai bong and tan as kwan- but the devil in the details are more subtle and effective when learned well.The kwan is important enough to be in every section of doing the mook yan jong.

    It is not just for chi sao. Application involves the right timing, distance, knowing the forces involved upon contact etc.The usage of the kwan depends on circumstances including the skill of the user.
    If the YGKYM structure training is good and someone is about to tie you up in close quarters with a good kwan you can reverse the relationships and get out of the tie up and throw them, or make them lose their balance and hit them or other martial action.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PS- I don't care to argue with LG and JG..would be wasted time and energy.

    But re KG recent post-aside from lacking basic respect for wing chun teachers including the one he was the longest with--and his long jumbled and unclear attempts to explain wing chun...he refers to coming to Arizona, makes negative remarks about what he claims to have seen and posts a picture.
    I have commented on this before but since he posts the same junk again..

    1. Once some years ago Augustine Fong was asked by Victor Kan to sponsor a seminar.Fong sifu did that and has courteously done so for others- WC and non WC masters of note. The Kan seminar was held in Tempe at what was then Tuft's school on University drive and not in Tucson.
    2. I was there- I am in the group pic that was taken. So were others. Several people including a friend of Robert Chu from California can confirm some of my observations:

    a) KG did an awful and stiff chum kiu demo when requested by his sifu..
    b) he had little control over his limbs.
    c)he made a general fool of himself
    d)at one point -one of my kung fu brothers went up to him and "accompanied" the unwilling KG to the door right in front of his sifu.

    There is more but why bother??

    I have attempted to comment on the thread starters post and somewhat reluctantly comment on KG self adulation and thread diversion.

    Joy Chaudhuri

  15. #45
    Good post Joy

    I didn't know it was held up there in Tempe. It must of been a nice school there on University!

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