Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

I know that when I studied under him you could not make ANY contact when sparring. He taught Japanese weapons such as the nunchucks and sai. Whats up with that? We have a saying....Sin us the money and you can Hiang your diploma on the wall. Funny huh?

When did you say you trained with Master Sin and Master Hiang? Well given that they split in 83 or so, that would have made you 10 years old! Isn't your birthday July 17, 1973? I don't let 10 year olds make contact either!

[Judge Pen]

why do you ask? What does Frank Sexton have to do with this discussion? Or vibrating palms? Frank Sexton is with Ng family not Shaolin Do.

Because Mr. Sexton came on this forum a couple of years ago, showed his arse and made an idiot of himself and disrespected his teacher in the process. That's the typical response we're used to.

[mkriii]

I studied at the great Sin The' Sport Center on Richmond Road back probably in 1983 or 84 somewhere around then. I was about 11 or 12 years old. If you don't let children that are ten years old make contact then thats pathetic. But anyways, I had grown adults in class with me at the Sport Center and they couldn't make contact either. My Sifu (or as SD calls them sensei since they use Japanese terms) lets children make light contact and we have NEVER had a problem. Yes I know Sifu Frank Sexton but he is not my Sifu. My teacher is Master John Dufresne. You know the one that was attacked by your fellow SD brothers at a karate tournament and Dufresne kicked all of their rear ends.

[bodhi warrior]

sin and hiang were still together in '86. Hiang did my blackbelt test at the sin the' sportscenter.
What is the name of the sil lum school in lexington?

[Judge Pen]

I studied at the great Sin The' Sport Center on Richmond Road back probably in 1983 or 84 somewhere around then. I was about 11 or 12 years old. If you don't let children that are ten years old make contact then thats pathetic. But anyways, I had grown adults in class with me at the Sport Center and they couldn't make contact either. My Sifu (or as SD calls them sensei since they use Japanese terms) lets children make light contact and we have NEVER had a problem. Yes I know Sifu Frank Sexton but he is not my Sifu. My teacher is Master John Dufresne. You know the one that was attacked by your fellow SD brothers at a karate tournament and Dufresne kicked all of their rear ends.

I've personally corresponded with John Dufresne. He personally apologized to me for Mr. Sexton's behavior. Do yourself a favor, don't lose face and make him apologize for yours too.

[mkriii]

I thought they were together longer than 1983. I could have sworn I was about 12 when I was at the Sin The' Sport Center. I got to Brown belt under Sin The'.

[Judge Pen]

I thought they were together longer than 1983. I could have sworn I was about 12 when I was at the Sin The' Sport Center. I got to Brown belt under Sin The'.

According to bodhi warrior they were together in 1986. All I knew was that it was in the early to mid 80s. My point was, you were a child. Given the venom of your posts, maybe you still are.

[mkriii]

I'm not saying anything that isn't true. What have I said that wasn't true? So now you have to go bring John Dufresne into it and Frank Sexton and others? This conversation should be between the two of us, no one else. I studied under Sin The' and I know what it is all about. I got to brown belt in about 1 year. Thats crazy!!!! Under Sifu Dufresne it took me 2 years to get to brown and another year to get to my black sash (or belts as you all in SD use).

[Judge Pen]

I'm not saying anything that isn't true. What have I said that wasn't true? So now you have to go bring John Dufresne into it and Frank Sexton and others? This conversation should be between the two of us, no one else. I studied under Sin The' and I know what it is all about. I got to brown belt in about 1 year. Thats crazy!!!! Under Sifu Dufresne it took me 2 years to get to brown and another year to get to my black sash (or belts as you all in SD use).

Reread the posts. I never mentioned John Dufresne until you did. I did metion Frank Sexton, because he came on here a few years ago acting exactly the same as you are now.

The things about the contact and the intensity of Master Hiang's classes is in direct conflict with everything that I've heard from the old timers (and even those who no longer study SD) The thing is your "experience" is different than everyone else's. Everything I've ever heard about Master Hiang is that his classes were rough and full of contact. You come in and say something different, but you neglected to tell us that you were pre-teen at the time......ok and you are in a style now that has a traditionally rivalry with sd.....ok and your posts are attacking in tone....ok That's three reasons to suspect your credibility.

It's ok to admit that you have a bias. I have a bias for SD. I try to be more objective with my thinking and less attacking in my posts (recent posts aside, you got under my skin I confess), but that's just me.

If you come to a site and speak of your style and your teachers, you bring them into the conversation. What you do represents them too. Maybe you should have thought of that.

[mkriii]

I was just merely saying that Frank Sexton was not my teacher because I thought you might assume he was and I wanted to clear that up and let you know that Dufresne was. I wasn't intentionaly bringing my teacher into this. As for John Dufresne appologizing for Frank Sexton I don't believe that. Why would he appologize for someone that is not his student. Sexton is Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng's student, not John Dufresne's. Now back on topic, maybe Hiang The' changed his teaching methods after I quit but I assure you that NONE of the people in my class were allowed to make contact when sparring. I had both young and old in my class. Me and my dad started class together along with some other father/sons that were in the class. My dad eventually quit but I continued up till brown belt. I was 13 when I got my brown belt and we still could not make contact. Since you seem to know alot about SD and Sin The', why does Sin The discourage any of his students from competing at any tournaments? And don't give me the..... It's to deadly for tourtnament lecture. Heard that one to many times. The only tournament he allows students to participate in is if it's his tournament. Could this be because he wants all their money for himself and not let them give it to another tournament promoter or could it be he doesn't want them to see how bad they really are? Just curious.

[mkriii]

Why did I get under your skin if you have a bias towards SD? Why do you take up for them if you don't even do Shaolin Do Karate? Makes no sense.

[Baqualin]

I was just merely saying that Frank Sexton was not my teacher because I thought you might assume he was and I wanted to clear that up and let you know that Dufresne was. I wasn't intentionaly bringing my teacher into this. As for John Dufresne appologizing for Frank Sexton I don't believe that. Why would he appologize for someone that is not his student. Sexton is Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng's student, not John Dufresne's. Now back on topic, maybe Hiang The' changed his teaching methods after I quit but I assure you that NONE of the people in my class were allowed to make contact when sparring. I had both young and old in my class. Me and my dad started class together along with some other father/sons that were in the class. My dad eventually quit but I continued up till brown belt. I was 13 when I got my brown belt and we still could not make contact. Since you seem to know alot about SD and Sin The', why does Sin The discourage any of his students from competing at any tournaments? And don't give me the..... It's to deadly for tourtnament lecture. Heard that one to many times. The only tournament he allows students to participate in is if it's his tournament. Could this be because he wants all their money for himself and not let them give it to another tournament promoter or could it be he doesn't want them to see how bad they really are? Just curious.

OK Mkriii,
I'm here in Lex.....been here since 1974....started with GMS & M. Hiang in 1974 and I'm still with GMS & I'm one of the internal instructors at the Lex. school....always made contact except to face & joints......could compete in any tourney I wanted to and still can.....a lot of SD students do......LIKE JP for one.......at 12 or 13 you were a child & still seem to be, for you have no idea what your talking about
BQ

[Judge Pen]

I was just merely saying that Frank Sexton was not my teacher because I thought you might assume he was and I wanted to clear that up and let you know that Dufresne was. I wasn't intentionaly bringing my teacher into this. As for John Dufresne appologizing for Frank Sexton I don't believe that. Why would he appologize for someone that is not his student. Sexton is Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng's student, not John Dufresne's. Now back on topic, maybe Hiang The' changed his teaching methods after I quit but I assure you that NONE of the people in my class were allowed to make contact when sparring. I had both young and old in my class. Me and my dad started class together along with some other father/sons that were in the class. My dad eventually quit but I continued up till brown belt. I was 13 when I got my brown belt and we still could not make contact. Since you seem to know alot about SD and Sin The', why does Sin The discourage any of his students from competing at any tournaments? And don't give me the..... It's to deadly for tourtnament lecture. Heard that one to many times. The only tournament he allows students to participate in is if it's his tournament. Could this be because he wants all their money for himself and not let them give it to another tournament promoter or could it be he doesn't want them to see how bad they really are? Just curious.

I'm not lying to you. If you don't believe me, speak to your teacher.

Thank you for conceading that there is a lot about SD that you don't know. I don't know why or how your calsses were run, but its certainly not my experience or many of the old timeres that I know and respect.

As for tournaments, I compete in open tournaments from time to time. I do it with my teachers knowledge and approval. There is the quote that is, paraphrasing "if your primary intent is tournaments, then go elsewhere" and that does touch on safety etc. I'm sure that many techniques in TCMA can translate to the ring effectively, but they are modified or muted by rules or protective equipment. That's the way it should be and not unique to just SD. Example, could you use Ng's famed vibrating palm technique safely in a tournament?

Your posts show that you know little about SD. I'll be glad to answer your questions if we can have an adult conversation about these points.

[mkriii]

OK Baqualin...I don't know what I'm talking about? If thats not the pot calling the kettle black...LMAO. I was judging at Ken Eubank's Bluegrass National Karate Tournament and saw this little blonde hair kid (about 15 or 16 yrs old) coming to the ring I was judging at. He was carrying a homemade Quan Do made with a cardboard blade on top of a pole. To top it all off he was wearing a Shaolin Do Karate uniform. It was so funny that it was sad. Poor kid, he tried his best though despite the make shift Quan Do.

[Judge Pen]

OK Baqualin...I don't know what I'm talking about? If thats not the pot calling the kettle black...LMAO. I was judging at Ken Eubank's Bluegrass National Karate Tournament and saw this little blonde hair kid (about 15 or 16 yrs old) coming to the ring I was judging at. He was carrying a homemade Quan Do made with a cardboard blade on top of a pole. To top it all off he was wearing a Shaolin Do Karate uniform. It was so funny that it was sad. Poor kid, he tried his best though despite the make shift Quan Do.

So a 15 year old kid couldn't afford a kwan do and thought it was funny and sad? Who are you to pass judgment like that? That's why you get under my skin--I can take all the detractors that make valid points and discuss things intelligently and with respect and class, but I don't suffer fools.