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Thread: Why I don't practice CLF anymore.

  1. #1
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    Why I don't practice CLF anymore.

    Some people have thought in the past that I have a certain allegiance to a particular martial arts style, sub-branch or teacher. They were dead wrong. What my quest in martial arts has always been is to find the best style, sub-branch or teacher and learn as much as I can. (I often approach that learning from many different angles, historical, practical, biological to get the best understanding that I can.)

    With that in mind IMHO there some serious flaws in the CLF system. That's not to say that CLF isn't effective as a method of hand to hand combat, it can be. The problem as I see it is that there are more efficient ways and better strategies to the same result (ie effectiveness in hand to hand combat.) The style that I have been increasingly drawn to for the last ten years is Chen Taiji..... for these two main reasons, efficiency and strategy.

    Greater efficiency means 3 things:

    1) Less wasted motion leads to greater power potential.
    2) Less wasted motion leads to quicker response times.
    3) Less wasted motion leads to less training injuries.


    In the strategy of Chen Taiji hard force (li) is not met with hard force (li.) That's not to say that force is never resisted or met with resistance or that force is not issued.

    However, it is different than meeting it with muscular strength. The strength in Chen Taiji is more like the rigidity of a hose filled with water rather than an iron bar like CLF (or any other external style for that matter). In practice this means that there is less chance of injury as a result of your own actions. Yes, you can hard block an attack with a shin or forearm but eventually your body will pay the price.

    So I think there are better ways and that is the path that I am following. I don't regret my CLF training, it still informs alot of what I do and it was a great discipline for me as a young man. However, as I move into my 30s I need a training method where I can continue to progress for the next 60 yrs (hopefully!). Unfortunately, that means that I've had to "invest in loss" and abandon my CLF training so that I can refine the body mechanics of Chen Taiji.....and they are very different from anything that I currently understand.

    Best to everyone in their training and I hope you CLFers still consider me your kung fu brother even if I've chosen another road.

    Take care,

    FP

    Here are some clips of my Taiji Sigung:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4w_62WX9Rk

    Here's some really good Chen Taiji push hands from my Sibak:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DADYbpj4oMw
    Last edited by Fu-Pow; 04-27-2007 at 02:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    uhh....half+ of ur ignore list are probably some of the most hardcore CLF people on this forum...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by htowndragon View Post
    uhh....half+ of ur ignore list are probably some of the most hardcore CLF people on this forum...
    Am I missing your point?

  4. #4
    Are you practicing the Hunyuan Taiji form or Hong Junsheng's practical method?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crosshandz View Post
    Are you practicing the Hunyuan Taiji form or Hong Junsheng's practical method?
    Hun Yuan Taiji. Chen Zhonghua is a student of Hong Junsheng and now Feng Zhiqiang.

    FP

  6. #6
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    that stuff looks realy interesting . like a tai.chi hsing.i mix iam probaly wrong thats what it lok like to me but it looks like it would also have health benifets .and a good fighting system

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg View Post
    that stuff looks realy interesting . like a tai.chi hsing.i mix iam probaly wrong thats what it lok like to me but it looks like it would also have health benifets .and a good fighting system
    Yes, it is a xin yi and taiji mix. Mostly Taiji though.

    FP

  8. #8
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    I'm a student of Master Chen's top disicple in the Hong Jongshen system and practice Bak Hsing CLF, sorta missed your point as I find that they compliment each other quite well...
    Robert James
    5th Gen. Bak Hsing Kwoon
    bakhsingkwoon@gmail.com
    http://www.youtube.com/user/SatoriScience
    "Whip the pole like the dragon whips its tail. Punches are like a tiger sticking out its head!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori Science View Post
    I'm a student of Master Chen's top disicple in the Hong Jongshen system and practice Bak Hsing CLF, sorta missed your point as I find that they compliment each other quite well...
    How long have you studied the Taiji?

    FP

  10. #10
    there is no best style fu-pow, its the man behind it!

    even tho u don;t train clf anymore, we will still remember ur comment on the ineffectiveness of buk sing. and for ur sake wen u do meet any of us
    i hope ur chen taiji water filled horse has given u quicker response times and greater power.

  11. #11
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    I really think it all comes down to the sifu you follow and how their school is structured and set up. I always have felt CLF and tai chi worked well with each other but practicing CLF alone doesn't have to always be hard vs. hard. I think understanding soft power and loose springy power can help avaoid injuries. I have been doing CLF for almost 15 years now and never had any serious injuries. Yeah we all have aches, pains and bruises but what martial artist doesn't. I always tell students being a martial artist is about learning to live with some type of pain.

    Any how good luck with the tai chi, you always have to follow your heart and think of what is best for you. I probably have some other ideas as to what could have pushed you more towards tai chi but I would rather not air that in the open as it wouldn't benefit anyone.

    Peace.
    Last edited by CLFNole; 04-28-2007 at 07:32 AM.

  12. #12
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    fu.pow wundering if you know of any teachers over my way .i would like to do some training in that .i think i would go well with my hsing.i

  13. #13
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    CLF and Hun Yuan Xin Yi Chen Taiji have been regulars in my diet for more than the last 10 years. They compliment each other, in my training. Anything is possible as long as you practice moderation (moderation is one of the keys GM FZQ always talks about).

    But you choose the path you choose. Yang Laoshi always says to not quit at the first signs of discomfort, but to also not push to the point of breaking, either. Some days I feel more CLF, other I feel more Taiji. It's almost as if I need my Taiji to appreciate my CLF and I need my CLF to appreciate my Taiji...probably doesn't make any sense. Anyhoo.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLFNole View Post
    I probably have some other ideas as to what could have pushed you more towards tai chi but I would rather not air that in the open as it wouldn't benefit anyone.
    LOL CLFNole, you shouldnta said nuthin! Now I'm TOTALLY curious to know the scoop on this!! That's like saying, "I have a secret, and you don't know what it is, nyah nyah!"
    The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
    Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong

    The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
    Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium

    And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
    Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!


    Austin Kung-Fu Academy

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLFNole View Post
    I really think it all comes down to the sifu you follow and how their school is structured and set up.
    Very true.


    I always have felt CLF and tai chi worked well with each other but practicing CLF along it doesn't have to always be hard vs. hard.
    For me it is a combination of self-inflicted injuries by not moving "naturally" and injuries accumulated by meeting force with force in sparring. That's why I think in the long term this is not a winning strategy.

    I think understanding soft power and loose springy power can help avaoid injuries. I have been doing CLF for almost 15 years now and never had any serious injuries.
    From my perspective I don't see that the body mechanics of CLF and Taiji are compatible. It would be like saying that the body mechanics of Southern Praying Mantis and Choy Lay Fut are compatible. In my mind they're THAT different...if not more so.


    Yeah we all have aches, pains and bruises but what martial artist doesn't. I always tell students being a martial artist is about learning to live with some type of pain.
    That just goes with the territory. Everyone has to pay their dues. My Taiji teacher apparently got a dislocated rib on a recent trip to train with his Sihings. So it doesn't matter how good you are, you're still gonna have and off day and that's part of paying your dues.


    Any how good luck with the tai chi, you always have to follow your heart and think of what is best for you. I probably have some other ideas as to what could have pushed you more towards tai chi but I would rather not air that in the open as it wouldn't benefit anyone.

    Peace.
    There were other factors involved from the ones I have stated but in retrospect I think I was just ready to move on to something else. My personality is like that, once I get what I came for I move on. I felt with CLF that I had got what I came for and it was time to continue in a new direction. But you're first statement was correct, if I'd had a different teacher maybe I would have stuck around a little longer, but since I didn't this is the way that things played out.

    Ciao

    FP

  15. #15
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    There is no scoop to what I said. My ideas about why he moved on from CLF are based on his posting. So "mo gum baat kwa" okay.

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