Would SLT be of any use if it was all you ever got to learn?

[GlennR]

what is the difference between WCK and WC? not the acronyms but the arts.

Nothing, same thing

[PalmStriker]

This story, way before the guys started dressing up and singing falsetto: http://sifuochwingchun.com/wing-chun...e-destruction/

[Hendrik]

Many people in the west just create the his-story as they like. Shaws brother kungfu movies are their truth.

As I mention above, an authentic Wck history has to match in Chinese history, anti Qing or secret society history, and the DNA of the art.

One can't imply make up history and making claim as they like.


Thus, I think it is time for us wcners to educate ourself with facts instead of buy into stories and stories.

This story, way before the guys started dressing up and singing falsetto: http://sifuochwingchun.com/wing-chun...e-destruction/

[PalmStriker]

AND This: http://wingchunassoc.com/about/history/fiveelders.htm

[Hendrik]

Focus on what is fact instead of wasting energy in other directions.

AND This: http://wingchunassoc.com/about/history/fiveelders.htm

[PalmStriker]

AND This: http://wingchunassoc.com/about/history/ywctocws.htm

[PalmStriker]

Cannot accept WingChun TCMA origin as having been poofed out of a vacuum on the back of an effeminate monk that fled from the-to-be torched Southern Shaolin temple to hide out in colorful costumes and teach a bunch of actors an assassin's art for the sole purpose of Vendetta against the same people who had them on the run. If true, not-so-smaat as they only drew attention to themselves and put the people who relied on the Opera boats for survival at risk. Not that it bothers me.

[bogdan.sifu]

Does SLT have any practical use without the other two if you never have a chance to learn any more?

No, it's just a blue print.

You can't live in a blue print, you need to build the house.

[anerlich]

Cannot accept WingChun TCMA origin as having been poofed out of a vacuum on the back of an effeminate monk that fled from the-to-be torched Southern Shaolin temple to hide out in colorful costumes and teach a bunch of actors an assassin's art for the sole purpose of Vendetta against the same people who had them on the run. If true, not-so-smaat as they only drew attention to themselves and put the people who relied on the Opera boats for survival at risk. Not that it bothers me.

That's a more entertaining and plausible history than many I've heard, including Hendrik's.

Extra points for including "poofed" and "effeminate" in a single sentence.

[JPinAZ]

Many people in the west just create the his-story as they like. Shaws brother kungfu movies are their truth.

Don't you live in the west?

One can't imply make up history and making claim as they like.

So then, why do you continue to do it thread after thread? Oh yeah, because you live in 'the west'....

[PalmStriker]

Hendrik does point out that his lineage is not mainstream, and not derived through the 3 Heroes of Fatshan, which is OK. Butt, From the Hard style Red Boat lineage SnakeCraneQuan that I have posted in another thread ("cousins"), the stuff Hendrik has been posting does not ring any bells there, either. I would kike to see a vid that has some life to it. Will find the vid I am talking about and re-post here. Otherwise, to hear SLT described as a "blueprint" might as well call it "an exercise in flower-petal puffy loo-loo." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lcjvMzulHI

[Ali. R]

When training in SLT it’s not how fast one can move, and the best practitioners uses timing anyway, because timing can deal with speed. Almost everyone grows up learning the one, two or one, two, three from when their dad put the gloves on them for the first time, and for most of us that will/can take you a long way in life, it did for me.

See, I’d grew up tasting the salty affects of having a busted nose or lip practically once every other month, but still did quite well outside of getting my but kicked by my brothers. And It boggles the mind that some may feel that you can’t pop out a ‘tan da’,‘pak da’ or some form of ‘lop sao’ after doing it over a thousand and one times plus. I’d did fine without knowing how to use proper footwork, counterpunching, defense and everything else that went with boxing before training formally.

And you have guys that weren’t formally trained at all that do quite well using the very basic of fighting. And the way I see it, you have a lot of guys that need to go back to ‘SLT,’ that are way ahead of themselves with bad structure, no timing consistent deviation of principles; while in most cases their ‘Chum Kil’, ‘Wooden Man’ is non-existent when they’re sparring or in application. I’m not here to teach anyone anything because no one asked me nothing, And Joy couldn’t have said it any better.

What I’m saying is, you have to start somewhere and it’s up to the man or practitioner who could/will develop a strong foundation of the basic fundamentals that will make you solid, and not from how many forms you may know, which in most cases are undeveloped anyway. Everything else outside of ‘SLT’ is a plus. And it’s simple, either you have heart or you don’t, but that shouldn’t keep you from doing your best when fighting of training while in the earlier stages of learning ‘wing chun’.


Take care,

[Wayfaring]

What I’m saying is, you have to start somewhere and it’s up to the man or practitioner who could/will develop a strong foundation of the basic fundamentals that will make you solid, and not from how many forms you may know, which in most cases are undeveloped anyway. Everything else outside of ‘SLT’ is a plus. And it’s simple, either you have heart or you don’t, but that shouldn’t keep you from doing your best when fighting of training while in the earlier stages of learning ‘wing chun’.

I'd say the main difference I've seen in my SLT training is the detail of the skill development at that level in HFY. For example, everybody knows SLT is the "little idea", and that it involves focusing on yourself to develop fundamentals, posture, etc. - the foundation like you are saying.

What I saw different in HFY at the SLT level was the kiu sau layer (intro to HFY chi sau), and the sup ming dim - 10 bright points - taught by the HFY formula. So there is constant verification of structure. An SLT is about structure - your own internal structure - limbs in alignment with each other and your body, and your structure alignment to your opponent. The HFY formula is all about measurements to show your structure - centerline, height, width, range (outer/inner door), facing.

Can I use it? A framework that helps me spar live with proper structure in myself and facing to my opponent? Yes I use it all the time. I even notice similar structure amongst some of the better boxers - never getting over extended or collapsed in on themselves, etc.

The Yip Man SLT I felt in comparison was more just learning to use the elements of Wing Chun - tan, bong, fuk. And maybe centerline.

[Ali. R]

The Yip Man SLT I felt in comparison was more just learning to use the elements of Wing Chun - tan, bong, fuk. And maybe centerline.

But it's a lot more than just applications (The Yip Man System).



Take care,

[JPinAZ]

I even notice similar structure amongst some of the better boxers - never getting over extended or collapsed in on themselves, etc.

That's really cool you said that, I've notice this same thing as well as well in regards to HFY's WC Formula/Sup Ming Dim and how some of the better boxers operate.

In the end, it's all about efficiency. And the more time you spend doing something, the more your body will naturally learn how to move more efficiently (well, it should anyway). The jewel of HFY's Sup Ming Dim is that you have a constant meter to gauge where you're at in that regard every step of the way, as well as a guide that can instantly help you correct errors when you find them (structural, spacial, facing, etc).
This was and still is one of the biggest eye openers to me when I discovered the HFY system. It really helps take out the the guess work as well and cuts down on the need for 'sifu said do it this way' type of arguments. I see students self corecting on a daily basis during drills once they understand the basic ideas of the WC Formula. Good stuff!