Some observations on TCMA

[pazman]

I aggree with that, its like a lot of schooling, you have shown that you can remember a lot of stuff , but not that you can apply it to real life. It shows more of an ability to copy a look or repeat a set sequence of prearranged movements. It gives you a reference point to be able to compare from, if you decide to try to use it outside your school.

???
Go to a Judo school, or a BJJ school, and ask them what set of prearranged movement they have to know to earn a blackbelt.

[Bacon]

???
Go to a Judo school, or a BJJ school, and ask them what set of prearranged movement they have to know to earn a blackbelt.

Well initially all of the movements are taught as such be it throw, sweep reap, takedown, transition, sweep, pass, or submission. Heck some of the old Kodokan forms should still be taught but sadly are not! But once you can do the move in application you don't really drill the form.

[YouKnowWho]

YKW's clip showed the shin bite more sideways which is fine for just explaining the basic idea, but I would angle more forward in my particular application example.

You can use your shin bite to the front side of your opponent's leg and against his shin too. You will need to lift your toes up, rotate your right leg clockwise, until his low leg is pushed into a 45 degree.

To use the strong part of your body (such as the shin bone) to deal with the weak part of your opponent's body (such as the knee joint) is the same as to use your hand (strong arm muscle) to push up your opponent's chin (weak neck), both followed the same principle.

[pazman]

Well initially all of the movements are taught as such be it throw, sweep reap, takedown, transition, sweep, pass, or submission. Heck some of the old Kodokan forms should still be taught but sadly are not! But once you can do the move in application you don't really drill the form.

That's a good point. I know many Judo schools no longer teach formal kata, which is sad because they often prove useful (or at least interesting) to people who have already become skilled in randori.

There were a couple of experienced Judo guys who came to where I trained Aikido in the hopes of learning more about kata, because my teacher's teacher helped develop Kodokan's Goshinjutsu.

But to Robinhood's point, a black belt in Judo means having at least a little skill in randori, most likely being able to be competitive at a match, not just being able to do a pre-arranged sequence. EarthDragon is correct in that the shodan is a beginning in many arts, but I wouldn't confuse beginning level with not having proficiency.

A black belt in BJJ means something else entirely and people with these are more akin to wizards who can summon dragons.

[bawang]

Troll harder, dude. I didn't say methods for weighing things didn't exist. I said there weren't barbell type weights that were accessible to the masses for things like squats.

what kind of kung fu do u train again

[Bacon]

That's a good point. I know many Judo schools no longer teach formal kata, which is sad because they often prove useful (or at least interesting) to people who have already become skilled in randori.

There were a couple of experienced Judo guys who came to where I trained Aikido in the hopes of learning more about kata, because my teacher's teacher helped develop Kodokan's Goshinjutsu.

But to Robinhood's point, a black belt in Judo means having at least a little skill in randori, most likely being able to be competitive at a match, not just being able to do a pre-arranged sequence. EarthDragon is correct in that the shodan is a beginning in many arts, but I wouldn't confuse beginning level with not having proficiency.

A black belt in BJJ means something else entirely and people with these are more akin to wizards who can summon dragons.

Actually I've rolled with a few of the really old school judoka from back when kata was the norm and their time was split between drilling the kata (which includes the throws, submissions, sweeps, transitions, etc), randori, and free fighting. I also watched one roll with a second degree BJJ blackbelt who was about 20 years younger and couldn't touch him. Mind you they had to start on the ground after he almost knocked him out with a glorious osotogari.

[MightyB]

???
Go to a Judo school, or a BJJ school, and ask them what set of prearranged movement they have to know to earn a blackbelt.

All 1st degree blackbelts should know the first 3 sets of Nage No Kata if they are competitors through Ashi-Waza ending on Uchi Mata. Non competitors are expected to know all of Nage No Kata.

[LaRoux]

???
Go to a Judo school, or a BJJ school, and ask them what set of prearranged movement they have to know to earn a blackbelt.

There are no sets in BJJ. BJJ blackbelts are achieved through mat time, competition, and mastery of the techniques in real-time application.

I believe it takes an average of 10 years to get a BJJ blackbelt. For most people, this would give them the requisite 10,000 hours that it is generally considered necessary to master a subject. Each degree after that takes an additional 3 years average to earn.

[Frost]

Dale got his BB in BJJ when getting a BB in BJJ was quite possibly one of the hardest MA to get a BB in.
To get a 3rd degree BB in BJJ is a very big deal, you don't get that without an extensive competitive career AND beating top level guys at the world level.
There are BB and then there are BB.
I don't know what the state of BJJ is at now, but in his day, it was a good 10 years of constant training AND competition ( winning).

What Ronin said above, and its still the same now ie getting a BJJ blackbelt (let alone a 3rd degree) means you are world class in your sport and have mastry of the art to a large extent,

Most people from a traditional background simply view blackbelts as the next stage in development ie now you are ready to learn the real stuff because you have proved yourself worthy of teaching by putting in the required years of dedication, they find it hard to understand that a blackbelt in BJJ means something totally different, it doesnt mean you are ready to learn the real stuff or take the next step, it means you are world class at what you do and are better than 90% of the rest of the BJJ world

[wenshu]

The only thing more contemptuous than physical laziness is intellectual laziness.

It occurred to me that I used "contemptuous" improperly.

Should've been "contemptible".

How embarrassing.

[Kellen Bassette]

It occurred to me that I used "contemptuous" improperly.

Should've been "contemptible".

How embarrassing.

It's particularly shameful considering you chose to butcher the English language while ranting about "intellectual laziness."

It may have gone unnoticed if you didn't bring it up, though. I would have edited it before anyone was the wiser.

[pazman]

All 1st degree blackbelts should know the first 3 sets of Nage No Kata if they are competitors through Ashi-Waza ending on Uchi Mata. Non competitors are expected to know all of Nage No Kata.

Is it possible in the US for a Judo player to get a shodan by a demonstration of Nage no Kata only, without a competency in randori?

There was rank testing I've seen in Japan where the Nage no Kata was a kind of formality...once you passed the randori test, they had an afternoon workshop on Nage no Kata after which you were awarded your rank.

[Syn7]

Is it possible in the US for a Judo player to get a shodan by a demonstration of Nage no Kata only, without a competency in randori?

There was rank testing I've seen in Japan where the Nage no Kata was a kind of formality...once you passed the randori test, they had an afternoon workshop on Nage no Kata after which you were awarded your rank.

I should hope so!

[Drake]

There are no sets in BJJ. BJJ blackbelts are achieved through mat time, competition, and mastery of the techniques in real-time application.

I believe it takes an average of 10 years to get a BJJ blackbelt. For most people, this would give them the requisite 10,000 hours that it is generally considered necessary to master a subject. Each degree after that takes an additional 3 years average to earn.

[MightyB]

Is it possible in the US for a Judo player to get a shodan by a demonstration of Nage no Kata only, without a competency in randori?

No. Even if you haven't been in a formal competition, you'd still have been in countless in school and inter school randori / shiai sessions by the time you were ready to test for Shodan.

There was rank testing I've seen in Japan where the Nage no Kata was a kind of formality...once you passed the randori test, they had an afternoon workshop on Nage no Kata after which you were awarded your rank.

It's pretty much the same, at least in the organization which we belong to which is the Konan Assoc.

The easiest way to get a black belt in Judo is to compete. Win tourneys, get a black belt. It's a pretty simple concept - the guys who can show they know Judo by doing Judo and winning at Judo, get a black belt. It's possible to walk into a tourney, kick arse as a brown, and have a higher ranking black belt promote you to black on the spot.