Resigned
talk about bluffing: you claim that you "have it', and yet when someone presents you with detailed, specific questions regarding your degree of attainment in classical, Taoist Internal Alchemical practice, which anyone with even basic, rudimentary experience would be able to speak to, you refuse to answer them, and then just ignore them;Originally Posted by Robinhood
hmmm...
I think that we all now know EXACTLY what sort of fellow we r dealing with here...
Registered User
Troll? What Troll? I don't see a Troll anywhere?talk about bluffing: you claim that you "have it', and yet when someone presents you with detailed, specific questions regarding your degree of attainment in classical, Taoist Internal Alchemical practice, which anyone with even basic, rudimentary experience would be able to speak to, you refuse to answer them, and then just ignore them;
hmmm...
I think that we all now know EXACTLY what sort of fellow we r dealing with here...
Where's the Troll?
Resigned
well, the REAL problem is that, like most internal-dilettantes, he has adopted the perspective that what he considers internal is somehow different from, superior to, more profound than what he considers external; this makes him feel like he is doing something special, and that, by extension, he is special; he has created for himself an unassailable position that, whereas most people don't "get it", he does - that he now has a special perspective on life, because he practices this thing that is so rarified and hoary; this is why he fixates on how his view of internal is beyond explanation from the perspective of biomechanics (which he doesn't even understand as such, lol); so he feels that he cannot be judged by anyone else, and his answer to criticism is to pull the old saw of "you just don't get it" (gee, we've NEVER heard that from any internal practitioner here, lol);
the problem is that when others such as myself with equal or perhaps even more experience than he has, come along and point out that what he does ain't all that special, and that it can be explained outside of its own paradigm (e.g. - via biomechanics and physiology), his specialness is threatened; so much so, that he can't even engage in a direct, point-to-point discussion, he simply dismisses the critiques as long-winded and uniformed;
it's rare to find someone who, when their secure world-view is up-ended, will face the possibility that they have to drop everything they thought they knew and embrace the uncertainty of "beginners mind"; of course, this is what the Ch'an masters used to deride the Taoist masters about, berating them for dragging around their walking corpses and whatnot;
30 blows, as I step over the corpse!
Registered User
Why do some people try to change the subject of a thread to something else, because they don't have any knowledge of the subject. No one is concerned with your dumb following of some history which is neither here nor there.
It looks like only John has any true experiences to share.
The question is can you do it ?, not some he said she said debate.
Yaki, If you can read, then read the Tai-Chi Classics , if you think it is fake, is that because you don't understand and can't do it?., is that your proof that is is made up.
So I guess anything you can't do or understand makes it not real.
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Dude...you need to do more standing!
Registered User
Sounds like your one of those guys that thinks studying something but never doing it makes you an authority.
Can you manifest JIN ?, not recreate sermons of monks!., I will bet most or all of those people you think know something can't manifest JIN..
Learning worthless history will not give you internal energy or the ability to do it.
Last edited by Robinhood; 10-30-2011 at 08:52 AM.
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Why is it that some people try to change the subject pretending to know something about a subject but cannot talk about it in any way because it has to be experienced and only he has the experience which he cannot describe or validate in any way to others he insists must accept his narrow and ignorant view, but can't actually demonstrate any of it and insists he learned it all from standing and standing is the only way to learn this magic and thinks it is internal practice because he read it in a book somewhere but doesn't even know that internal is a made up word in the martial sense of fairly recent origin and has no real ancient foundation in the martial sense and is totally unfamiliar with the origins as used in ancient Taoist literature or its meaning, but insists that only he has true internal understanding as if he is gifted and everyone else is foolish except John who he just spent a number of posts criticizing and now pretends to accept his authority because he cannot defend his own position rationally only by talking incessantly about his magical abilites developed through standing?
Just asking!
Last edited by Scott R. Brown; 10-26-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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- Running is better than walking.
- Walking is better than standing.
- Standing is better than sitting.
- Sitting is better than laying down.
- Laying down is bettern than to be dead.
The day that you go to jail, you will have all the time in the world to do your "standing" in your 8 feet by 10 feet jail cell. When you are not in prison, you should jump, flip in the air, run, walk, see the beautiful world, and enjoy your life.
If you move a
- tree, that tree will die.
- human being, that person will live longer.
Keep "moving" is the key for long life and not "standing".
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-26-2011 at 05:56 PM.
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I see, but mouthing off about something on an internet BB, demonstrates your expertise?
Can you manifest Jing? Who cares what your answer is? Anyone can say yes on the internet, but that doesn't demonstrate they can do it? We are supposed to accept your authority on a subject you can't even talk about or describe because it is too mystical to understand without the direct experience?
That makes you a novice Einstein! Anything that a person understands can be described, even inadequately using metaphor. Do a little research here on the board of the ten years or so of substantial post Chris and I have made concerning this subject and others like it, THEN contrast and compare those posts with yout idiotic diatribes, IF you can, which you can't.
You are in a very different class, the class with the conical little hats and a stool over in the corner!
Last edited by Scott R. Brown; 10-26-2011 at 06:08 PM.
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I like sleep meditation, but moving is a close second!
Standing incessantly is boring and bad for your feet and lower back! But for some it is the path to specialness!
Resigned
u continue to fixate about manifesting JING (why r we capitalizing the whole word?) like an autistic child w OCD, yet completely avoid discussion of macro / micro orbit practice, which is a major component of standing practice; I mean, u do know this, right?
or, maybe u r just stuck at the level of "jing"? given that "jing" is the lowest / most basic aspect of Orbital Practice, it's conceivable that ur fixation on "jing" and inability to speak to the entire Circulatory progression is because u r only functioning at that level; which is fine - good for u, keep at it, one day u may break through;
OTOH, if u want to live in ur Lower Elixir Field for the rest of ur life, that's fine, good for u; but there are two other Dan Tin's that u need to cultivate to move to "qi" and "shen" that u may want to consider; but I imagine that's between u and ur sifu;
it's funny though - u keep speculating on what I know / don't know, what who I know can / cannot do - and yet again, u avoid discussing the specifics that wud give an indication of ur level, as if for some reason u have something to hide...
Registered User
Oh! Wait! You mean HE is the Troll?
Whoa! Dude! I totally missed that! Boy! Do I feel dopey now!
Resigned
as regards standing practice being the key to internal:
I personally believe that standing practice is of great benefit, for numerous reasons; based on my own study / practice, I see it, roughly, in 3 parts: awareness, balancing, transformation;
initially, standing is about building awareness of ur self - it teaches u about how ur weight is distributed (e.g. - more on one leg than another, more forward / backward on ur feet); how u align posturally in gravity (e.g. - do u overly accentuate ur spinal curves, or underexentuate them; do you displace ur thoracic cage over ur pelvis in alignment or not; is ur head too forward, etc.); where u hold tension inappropriately; and what the state of ur breath is; as a relatively static practice, it provides an opportunity to notice all of these things in a situation where there is a relatively decreased amount of afferent sensory input occurring, which enable u to pay attention to the things above more readily than if u were moving, even slowly like in a taiji form; it also helps u notice the manner in which ur mind functions - how thoughts enter and how u attach to them, how u loose ur immediate awareness of the above things;
after a while, things can begin to happen, which is the rebalancing phase: one of the main things that can occur is spontaneous movement; of this there r several types / qualities: people can experience shaking, swaying, or writhing types of movement; this can be due to both spontaneous muscular movement as the generator (also known as ideomotor activity), or other things - for example, when loaded in a certain manner over time, connective tissue can star to spontaneously "unwind", which means that the tension / compression oads in the CT will "cue" the muscular system to move in such a way that the CT tensions will start to work themselves out; this sort of movement can actually be extremely beneficial if one understands how to respond to it in context of standing practice - sometimes one needs to just "go with the flow", other times, one needs to actually concertedly maintain standing in relative neutral; over time, one changes the way one relates to gravity and the ground through the structure; also, one can experience various sorts of emotional changes during practice - things from the past can "come up" and one can have a wide range of feelings, sometimes swinging from one extreme to another - at this point, having a teacher who has gone through this phase is helpful; it is also at this point that the Taoist classics talk about spontaneous manifestation of sights and sounds, and how one should not get distracted by these phenommena; basically, if we r talking about a neuromusculoskeletal rebalancing, the neural part can result in stimulation of various visual / auditory cortices, resulting in the above mentioned manifestations; finally, one can experience various changes in the breath, where one can experience a wide range of breathing patterns that seem to change of their own accord without rhyme or reason; these and other things sign like temperature changes, r signs of the autonomic nervous system is rebalancing, or more specifically, moving from a chronic sympathetic to a more parasympathetic state (which is the phase within which tissue regeneration - healing - takes place); over time, the CT will also change, as fibroblasts start laying down new CT fibers in context of the improved alignment as opposed to aberrant force vectors that had previoully been sitting in the CT system, creating conflict and dysfunction;
the next stage, transformation, is what happens when one has a) full awareness of body / breath / mind and b) the various physical / emotional dysfunctions present in the system have been re-integrated to the degree that they no longer create undue strain on the system's ability to maintain a balanced autonomic system, and the drive towards homeostasis is optimized; this is the point where standing practice becomes transformative - where one can stand and instantly achieve integrated function of the breath and the postural system relative to the ground reaction force coming up from the earth through the legs, pelvis, spine and cranium - it's where u get that instantaneous feeling of being energized, a feeling of seemingly endless spaciousness throughout the joints and CT system, where the cranium seems to "bob" or be buoyant on top of the spine - at this point, one experiences a sense of global freedom, as well as manifestation of the so-called channels "opening" (it is at this pint that one completes the Orbital Circulations as well)
of course, all of the above is described classically in various Taoist treatises - it's just not delineated so explicitly, and of course much of the language is metaphorical, because at the time there was less understanding of human anatomy and physiology than there is now - nevertheless, the practice can be fully and validly articulated from a contemporary standpoint, which is useful in terms of contextualizing the practice for modern-day practitioners, as well as for doing away with the mysticism aspect that many people use to obfuscate rather than to reveal the simple, yet profound nature of something like standing practice
of course, there is much more: u can do all of the above lying down, sitting, or walking as well -(it's just slightly different in each case); then one can engage in various other practices, some alone, some w a partner to progress and refine this - these drils can b martial or nonmartial in nature;
finally, one can work with / teach others, which requires one to have a whole different level of understanding, especially if one is teaching this to people with clinical issues (which, as a PT, I have had much occasion to do, and have seen uniformly positive results in people with long standing histories of various dysfunctions;
but anyway, just my 2 cents based on my experience of standing practice...
addendum: this is the original topic of this thread, right? I mean, no one can accuse me of going OT now, right? of course, if anyone wants to say I know nothing about internal, and I'm sure they will , fine; but if they want to discount what I say, I hope that they will go through my post point by point and key specifically what is wrong and why - I invite anyone to do that and will be happy to dialogue about specifics; but if people insist on just dismissing broadly what i say without addressing specifics, that's just going to get them called out as a troll
Last edited by taai gihk yahn; 10-26-2011 at 06:54 PM.
Resigned
what troll? there's a troll here? where? where?
Registered User
i had a friend who does yiquan. when he does his standing practice, he said depending on the posture, he has the "intent" of doing a certain movement, like raising his arms up for example, while holding still.
honestly, i still don't see the point. though i got the impression that it was a form of dynamic tension. holding still while having the intent of moving in the mind.
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