Are there real Shaolin Monks?

[rett]

Well if your Chi Gong or Gong Chi whatever works, bring it to The Amazing Randi to collect your $1,000,000.

Are you trying to be some kind of parody of yourself? It's working.

[GeneChing]

...but can you walk the walk?

lighting up a small LED bulb attached to my butt while moonwalking on shaggy carpet with socks on is a great feat of Kung-Fudability

The moonwalk-lights-LED-bulb-in-the-butt walk, that is.

[Kellen Bassette]

Don't post porn here. This is a family show.

Family show? Did I miss something?

[GeneChing]

...like a late night telenovela. Espectáculo familiar.

[rett]

To me it looks more like early evening Nature Channel. A documentary on insects. But some of the frames do resemble nekkid ladies dancing.

[David Jamieson]

That's a big Rorschach blotter you have there....

[RenDaHai]

This entire argument rests on the definition of a 'Shaolin Monk'. Without defining this first there can be no answer.

On first look it may seem that those who say there ARE monks are naive and believing fairy tales. However if we look closer then perhaps the opposite is true and it is the detractors who are naive.

How so? You see, if the monks today are not monks by your definition, then you must think historical monks are very different from todays monks. In what way? Perhaps that is the naive thought.

This ancient monk, who trains all day when he is not meditating on buddha, sleeps in Luohan stance and eats in Mabu, is the personification of wude and lives in humble solitude and silence at a secret temple and can only leave the sacred place after fighting his way out, this monk probably never existed.

In reality some monks became so because they were genuinely devoutly buddhist, others because they saw opportunity for corruption, others because of circumstance meant there was no other option, others just saw it as a job and others still for many more reasons. This is just the same as today.

Shaolin temple always trained monks and lay disciples alike. If you rocked up to Shaolin 400 years ago and gave them a chest full of silver taels even though you were not a monk do you think they wouldn't teach you? Of course they would. People have always loved money. No different from today.

The current abbot is officially appointed. You think historically the officials had no sway over Shaolin? Is the communist party any different from a corrupt emperor? Really its the same now as ever.

Shaolin charges money for tickets... In the past it owned all the farmland around it. It allowed peasants to farm the land in exchange for a share of the produce/profit. It had donations from rich people in exchange for ceremonies, teaching kung fu etc. Is this really much different from selling tickets today?

In the past Shaolin was like a military academy for those who could afford it and it trained armies. Nowadays there are so many students that they are split amongst many schools, all of whom consider themselves 'Shaolin ZhenChuan' (true transmission). Many of the students from these schools go on to join the army and benefit from the physical training and drilling they received in the schools. So is it really so different today as before?



I think things have a habit of not really changing. We always think the past is so vastly different from today, but I really believe it is far more similar than we imagine. I think Shaolin today probably operates much the same as it ever did.

I think the naivety lies in thinking things have changed, not in believing things have stayed the same.

[gunbeatskroty]

Did I ever say I thought that? No. So you're still ascribing views to people they don't have. Easy to win arguments that way.

You certainly implied such as you responded specifically to my LED light bulb attached to the butt analogy and even quoted it.

[gunbeatskroty]

Are you trying to be some kind of parody of yourself? It's working.

Now you're just crying because your Gong-whatever is just BS.

[gunbeatskroty]

of course, since the ancient times, the masters have reported that some strong men with powerful Qi could create signs of electricity in their body. this is written in the manual of the 72 secret methods of Shaolin temple.
that man could pump electricity through the measuring LED and light it at will, it were tested after controlling by those scientists.

anyway, just for joking, if you really think your butt can light that LED that way, then you've got an amazing butt. that Randi guy will become amazed at your butt and will give you the 1,000,000$!

There's already electricity in the body naturally. Just that you can't harness it to do BS Kung-Fu movie magic. No one has collected The Amazing Randi's $1,000,000 yet.

And you certainly can't use your Qi whatever to fight with. That's why Hong Kong remained a British port until like 2007 or something, chopsocky don't beat bullets. While you're busy charging up your 1-LED bulb Qi power, someone's just going to punch you in the face and knock you out.

[gunbeatskroty]

I think the naivety lies in thinking things have changed, not in believing things have stayed the same.

I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Very realistic + insightful.

One of my Muay Thai friend who fights amateur MT, recently went to train at Shaolin. It wasn't cheap but he said it was hardcore and kicked his butt. He was in excellent physical condition too. It's just like going to Thailand to train MT. They divide you up into groups based on your abilities. There's always a group for fatboy tourists who just wants pis for their Facebook page but they help pay the bills. Personally, I don't find it to be a big deal. You can go to a nice gym here in the US and train everyday, or even 2x/day and everyday....kill yourself, and get really good just the same.

[David Jamieson]

Yes, there are real Shaolin Monks who live in the Shaolin temple and do Buddhist prayers and practice Ch'an and martial arts.

[LFJ]

No one has collected The Amazing Randi's $1,000,000 yet.

That's because he's an amazing escape artist as well. He always has a way out. Why don't you look up some of his lies and denial? There are several cases. The guy will never part with that cash. It's silly to use him for your argument. It doesn't help you the way you think it does.

[LFJ]

So what should that make me think about you?

Since when does this topic have anything to do with my skill level? Talk about ad hominem. That's always the route people take when they have no logical basis for their argument, knowing most people aren't going to have or be willing to put videos of themselves on the internet, which is totally a personal choice and right that has no consequence on the actual merit of their argument, which in my case you are unwilling to address directly. Go figure.

You got videos brah???

Yes, I do... but they're all deadly skillz and super secret.

[rett]

You certainly implied such as you responded specifically to my LED light bulb attached to the butt analogy and even quoted it.

I didn't imply anything about magic powers or fighting skills. In fact I wasn’t implying anything other than exactly what I said. I'll repeat it, and explain it slowly, since you seem hell-bent on ascribing views to people they never expressed.

Rewind. You told someone to go to Randi to collect the reward, because they cited a study claiming mental manipulation of electric currents in the body by qigong practitioners.

I said, that isn't anything Randi would pay out cash for. I meant it's not paranormal (nor is making a current flow any sort of superpower or fighting skill, except perhaps for an electric eel 80% of whose body is a chemical battery).

Scientists have already developed sensors that can be deliberately controlled by thinking. These have potential uses for helping paralyzed people use computers. So controlling bioelectricity with the mind already exists and is recognized. It's science, it's natural, and it's nothing Randi pays for.

At that point you did your straw man trick, claiming I was talking about super fighting powers or paranormal skills.

The only superpowers I'm interested in are the ones I listed upthread: Using the superpower of compassion to overcome cruelty, courage to overpower fear, knowledge to overcome delusion, etc. Randi doesn't pay out for those either.

And even if it should turn out that paranormal powers like telepathy actually do exist, I wouldn't consider them truly paranormal or supernatural. Anything that really exists is, to me, part of nature and subject to causality, even if we don't understand it. (And once again, please note: I didn't claim telepathy exists)